Application for old fixture

reggie98

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Sep 11, 2006
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Edison, NJ, USA
Saw some old (very old?) fixtures for sale, a type that I didn't recognise. Best description of them would be a scoop light, with a half silvered bulb. No lens, but a series of concentric steel rings to control spill. The only information I can find calls them a beam light, used in very deep opera houses. Is there another use for these fixtures?
 

JSFox

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Sep 23, 2006
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The Tundra
I think what you've found are beam projectors. We use to use them alot for moon or sunlight through windows and for specific powerful key/back/side light. They produce pretty much what their name implies, a rough/soft edged relatively narrow beam of light. If you can still get lamps for them they would likely prove useful, though not as any type of area light or for most specials.
 

reggie98

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Sep 11, 2006
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Edison, NJ, USA
Her is a link to an image of one:
http://www.strandarchive.co.uk/lanterns/beamlite.html

I'd consider buying a few and I have an application for them right now, but if globes are expensive or impossible to find, then I'd have a bunch of boat anchors. The owner bought them on speculation at an auction and doesn't know what they are called or used for. Will these do anything that a well maintained and focused ellipsoidal won't?
 
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avkid

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Does anyone have picture a picture of the globe lamps they use?
I know a guy who has all sorts of connections with odd and historic theatrical lighting equipment, not to mention a small barn chock full of vintage everything.
A large number of our instruments are old restored fixtures salvaged from an local museum theatre after a fire. I might even have something laying around if you are lucky.
 

reggie98

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Edison, NJ, USA
I was hopeing to get more of "yea or nay" type answer from the group. Maybe Ship, with his considerble number of years in lighting, could give a definitive answer. Are these fixtures just too specialized to get used often? Will they sit around and occupy more space then they are worth?
 

ship

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Illinois
Beam projectors are some of my favorite lighting instruments. Many different brands and types of them out there which makes it difficult to assume what type of lamp we are talking about.

Altman, Arri Flex, Century, Berkey Colortran, Electro Controls, Kliegl, L&E, Ludwig Pani, Mole Richardson, Reich & Vogel, Strand, Strand Century, & Wybron all either have made or still make this kind of light fixture and at times a few versions of it. Of the list above, brand to brand there is as much variation in lamp type used from FEL to BFE lamp including if I read right an arc source version of it also. The Euro beam projectors are somewhat standardized as are the Movie industry types, but if American for stage and studio, not a chance. Depends upon when the fixture came to market in finding what lamp was popular at the time.


If the above Strand fixture, the lamps are still available for the #13021 1Kw version, I have a few of the lamps in stock for my own fixures in fact - same lamp as the Reich & Vogul fixtures below I stock. It's just a Euro lamp and requires a good supplier and up to a two week lead time to find the K-39d based 1Kw/24v lamp below. The lamp comparatively is not that expensive either on the other hand.

1M-G40SB #578K Radium(Sylv.) G-40 Silver Bowl (Doctor Fisher) 1Kw/24v PK 30d Lcl 4.1/4"/MOL 7.1/2"

1Kw/24v, (K39d Base) Mirror Domed, Radium #578K, kv #21202419, Osram #555622, Kku & Philips #7064 K/02. 23,000 Lum, 100hr



If the #130011 Beamlite 500 fixture, it's lamp is a E-40 based 500w/24v. I don't have the existence of this lamp in my specification notes but than again first I'm in the US - it's a Euro lamp and second I have not tried to get it. I suspect that Radium Die Lichtmarke (Lamp Mfr.) http://www.radium.de/e/index.html which I'm told is a subliterary of Osram/Sylvania should still have the lamp available. This is a detail that I would check out before buying the above fixture. Otherwise it's possible to modify the fixture to run a different lamp (I do it almost constantly in converting Euro fixtures to US types of lamps, 10K Fresnels into either LED or 1K fixtures etc.) Possible and could work, just very tricky and not recommended for most situations. Specifcally if the 500w version, check the website or some suppliers and verify it's availability. Phillips might also have this lamp given it's a fixture listed in the fixture/lamp conversion charts published by them. At very least if it is a Euro fixture, while 24v is not difficult, you would need to ensure that the transformer for it is either using a multi-tap 120/240 transformer or has a 120v transformer installed. Otherwise in specifying a new transformer for the fixture that will work in a 120v system it gets tricky.

On further research here is the info needed to get the 500w lamp: 500w/24v, Mirror Domed, Radium 570B,kv #21201618, Osram #555529 Dku, and Philips 162 G/02. All three are 500w/24v, E-40, Mirror Domed w. 12,600 Lum & 100hr



Where I work they have 4 types of beam projecter and they all are very different as night and day one to another. All have the same type of beam and all are very different in output and style. Seven Altman #660 1Kw fixtures that use the very commonly available 1Kw BTR lamps, four Reich and Vogul beam projectors that use the much more difficult to find Radium #578K lamp that's 24v/1Kw with a G-40 silver bowl lamp but one that with the proper contacts is very much available, and just bought a large amount of new Wybron BP-2's that are using easy to find GLE lamps. Also two something like 30" Mole Richardson beam projectors that take 5Kw DPY lamps.

A few years ago one of my tasks was to add internal counter ballast and a scroller to two of the Reich & Vogul fixtures in making them into followspots for a tour. This in addition to one of the few people at work that has used them by way of schooled in the design and us of them, I frequently have such gear coming across my path when it's time to service or prep them for shows.

It's a unique lighting fixture that others such as a ray light, ACL, VNSP and Leko can come close to but not fully simulate. In an educational setting, at least one if not a few of them could be very useful to own. You won’t use them a huge amount but when given the chance it’s something worth being in the inventory.
 

Dustincoc

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Sep 7, 2006
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Madrid, New York
We have a few old Beam projectors around. The only thing we currently use them for is collecting Dust. Come to think of it, I've got to work one of those into an upcoming show...
 

reggie98

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Sep 11, 2006
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Edison, NJ, USA
Thank you Ship for sharing your knowledge and experience with these lights. The seller only wants $30 each. I feel more confident buying them now.
 

ship

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$30.00 for a beam projector esepcially if as described as silver bowl type lamp as opposed to silvered inner reflector on the ring of baffles, would be a good price. Heck, $30.00 for any beam projector in my opinion is a good price even if it mostly collects dust.

This is a lighting fixture that you must get used to so as to understand it's usefulness not always but at times will or could be useful. Kind of like the difference in accelleration between driving Mom's car and driving a sports car.

The fixture will not always be useful mind you, but when it comes in handy, it's well worth the money.

This being of course my opinion. Others I'm sure would be much less in opinion of it's usefulness or worth in cost.


(Note: I work for a living... Calling me Sir confuses this or makes it become asking my Dad. In a similar way for me and I'm sure with other tech people, citing "years of experience" or in any other way sucking up or being overly nice either makes us suspicious or defeats the purpose of offering an opinon. What I say is and should be no more or less that of what other people offer in advice or opinion. The value of all is in what is expressed and offered. All have very valid points and on-line all have equal footing. Nuff said I'm sure and don't reply to this note. A in general type of thing to all. Yep, I have three linebacher projectors waiting for me to service amongst Color Blast fixtures to remove broken lenses on and some 1960's Fresnels to finish removing the asbestos from and upgrade to be useful. So what, that's my job but no less valid in points expressed than that of others who even have an innitial impression on something. Hope it helps - not being humble, just stating fact in all have equal weight here. At work, ok listen to me or sweep the floor. On-line, na it's all of us on a crew as it were.)
 

lightsnz

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Dec 30, 2014
Location
New Zealand
Hi Ship

We recently bought some Dr Fischer K39d 1000w,24v for Strand Beamlight 1000s. They imediatly gassed off a yellow oxide onto the top of the inside of the lamp and blackened. They still work and have now done several hours with no further change. This cant be normal surely. The voltage at the lamp is 23v so not overrun. Its made the beam appear partly yellow which is not the sort of thing you want on a follow spot. any ideas?
 

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ship

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micro crack due to shipping at some place the gas clouds can indicate. Shipping a lamp is often the worst thing you can do to it. Working now but probably not much longer in stop using it. Be glad you can still get this lamp, once bought an antique lamp and its filament didn't survive transport. Money wasted at least for the lamp I bought as per only a lamp, you bought a fixture in it still working shows a good fixture so far even if a bad lamp. The lamp I suspect you would be ready to change anyway in not knowing how long it will have lasted.

Once the new lamp is installed, be interested to know your thoughts on this new light.
 

lightsnz

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Dec 30, 2014
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New Zealand
micro crack due to shipping at some place the gas clouds can indicate. Shipping a lamp is often the worst thing you can do to it. Working now but probably not much longer in stop using it. Be glad you can still get this lamp, once bought an antique lamp and its filament didn't survive transport. Money wasted at least for the lamp I bought as per only a lamp, you bought a fixture in it still working shows a good fixture so far even if a bad lamp. The lamp I suspect you would be ready to change anyway in not knowing how long it will have lasted.

Once the new lamp is installed, be interested to know your thoughts on this new light.
Very impressed with the customer service at Dr Fischer. I sent them photos of the lamps and they immediately despatched two new ones DHL from Germany to NZ all free of charge. The quality control dept put it down to a small amount of air in the inert gas used in the lamp.

We use them in the Strand Beamlight 1000. They make a great soft edge followspot and because they are tungsten they blend with the rest of the rig v well. We use these and the Riche and Vogel 1000w version (it has a superior beam quality compared to the Strand one) mostly in opera. The technique emerged in Germany in the early 1930s.
 

ship

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Glad it all worked out. Your posting shows well and helpful in reading about for the company and customer service that everyone needs to know about in helping as per a problem solved.
 

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