Boggles my mind!!! Any theories on causes?

[theatre4jc]

Okay at my church this weekend we had a pretty decent sized men's conference. 5,000 in attendance. Rented a few movers and LEDs to make it a little flashy. Get this situation...

My house uses an ETC Emphasis system with Unison (I know, I know Emphasis...blah). So we have 4 universes coming out. Universe 1 and 2 are for our dimmers and use about 800 channels of DMX. Universe 3 and 4 are for any rented or tour gear. Obviously I didn't want to use the Insight board that I have with the Emphasis to run a small mover rig. So I brought out my Jands Vista S3. I'm well aware that Vista doesn't speak to ETC without a converter, which I don't have. However I have successfully used the Vista through ETC Net2. As long as I use house universe 3 or 4 I'm golden.

Here is what happened. I had universe 3 full and about half of universe 4. All my portable nodes except 1 lost the ability to send on universe 3. 1, 2, and 4 were fine. The only node that still responded just happened to be the node with 4 of 6 of my house movers on it. Now the problem gets fun. My other two VL 3500s would no longer respond to universe 3, which they have been running just fine on for 6 years. Without repatching my console, I plugged them into universe 4 and had full control over them! The nodes are programed for each universe to be what it is labeled. So the 2 lights were patched into the console on U3 and on the portable nodes on U4 and they worked perfectly!

Now get this. The 4 VL3500s that I did have working on U3, I tried taking the out from the 4th fixture and go to the next lights in the chain and when I plugged them in to the rest of the rig by daisy chaining I lost the whole rig! Unplugged the rented rig from fixture 4 and still didn't have control. Odd. So I took out fixture 4 and suddenly 1-3 worked fine. So now randomly fixture 4 will only work if it is the only thing in the line and if ANYTHING else is dasied off it, they don't work.

So once I learned this little issue I plugged the rented rig into fixture 3 and still had nothing. The work around I came up with was making universe 4 maxed out with the rented rig and some of my gear. So it worked just fine on U4, which lets me know that my Vista was working properly. And I know U3 on the Vista is functional because I tested it with other gear.

We tore down today and I plugged all my house stuff back in and all the nodes suddenly worked fine with U3 broadcasting through each node properly. The Vista has been used in the room before I was hired and worked just fine. I've been running gear and loading in mixed systems for years and never seen an issue like this. Anyone got any theories on what jacked up my system? Because of this issue and trying to fix it, I worked 52 hours from Thursday morning to Saturday at 2:30. Only slept 2 hours during that period.

 

[SteveB]

"So I brought out my Jands Vista S3. I'm well aware that Vista doesn't speak to ETC without a converter, which I don't have. However I have successfully used the Vista through ETC Net2."


To simplify, the Insight and Emphasis system was running conventionals and were on the Net2 system at the same time as the Vista was connected directly via Cat5 into the Net2 system.

I'm guessing that just because the "The Vista has been used in the room before I was hired and worked just fine" doesn't mean it'll work correctly every time.

Vista doesn't natively speak Net2. There is absolutely zip on the website about any capability of the Vista to connect directly to a Net2 system, so I would say you've been lucky to date and your luck ran out.

If I had to guess as the cause, I would suspect a DHCP server conflict. With Emphasis on the Net at the same time as the Vista, it sounds like both were attempting to function as DHCP servers and were forcing conflicts on the nodes as each console attempted to assign IP addresses. That's also the limit of my Net2 troubleshooting capabilities.

I would suggest re-posting on the ETC users forum as there are more learned folks there to advise you, but for the immediate future, I'd find a Net2 node to take DMX out of the Vista.

 

[starksk]

This sounds like a very intriguing problem that has multiple parts going on with it. From your description, I see both a hardware problem and a software problem.

There are several things that could cause parts of what you are seeing that could be adding up. I would first suggest that you break-out your copy of Network Configuration Editor (NCE) and see what the nodes are actually thinking that they are supposed to be doing. (If you don't have a copy of NCE, you can download a copy from the ETC website.)

When you say that you have used the Vista through Net2, are you connecting it straight to the network, or are you sending DMX to an input gateway? Also during any of this time, were there any anomalies with Unison's performance?

Also, I suggest that you give me a call tomorrow at 800-688-4116. There is a program available from Tech Services that will let you see what exactly is going on in the EDMX stream and which devices are controlling each channel. This program will be extremely useful in determining what is contributing to the control issues you are experiencing.

 

[photoatdv]

This one's got me intrigued. Post what you guys discover please .

 

[theatre4jc]

This sounds like a very intriguing problem that has multiple parts going on with it. From your description, I see both a hardware problem and a software problem.

There are several things that could cause parts of what you are seeing that could be adding up. I would first suggest that you break-out your copy of Network Configuration Editor (NCE) and see what the nodes are actually thinking that they are supposed to be doing. (If you don't have a copy of NCE, you can download a copy from the ETC website.)

When you say that you have used the Vista through Net2, are you connecting it straight to the network, or are you sending DMX to an input gateway? Also during any of this time, were there any anomalies with Unison's performance?

Also, I suggest that you give me a call tomorrow at 800-688-4116. There is a program available from Tech Services that will let you see what exactly is going on in the EDMX stream and which devices are controlling each channel. This program will be extremely useful in determining what is contributing to the control issues you are experiencing.

Funny you should ask about the Unison...more on that new nightmare in a minute. For running the Vista the way I have the system wired is the Emphasis controls U1 and 2 through an ethernet connection plugged directly into a ETCNet2 panel in the booth. That panel has a 5 pin connection for Us 1-3, 3 ethernet ports for Net 2, and another spot or two that I cannot remember what it's for. Beside that I have a wall mounted node that was sending out U3 and 4. On a normal day I have 6 VL 3500s, 10 LED panels, and 4 Robe ColorMix 575s running on the Emphasis with a 5pin cable coming out port 3 and into U3 on the wall node.

I checked the NCE and all nodes are doing what they are suppose to do. I didn't even learn I had this tool until mid day Friday. I have a desire to rework some of this soon. Now onto the Unison issues.

So Friday and Saturday when I was dealing with all these problems with the Vista and rented gear the Unison was fine. All was normal. We reset the room Saturday for Sunday and returned everything to normal settings. Fired right up with no issues and everything was perfect. Came in Sunday morning and the Unison was dead. I've been having to reset one of my two processors pretty frequently lately so I wasn't to bothered by it. Then when I hit reset...nothing. Went to check the settings and see if I had to remind it that it was processor 1 (it sometimes forgets). When I tried to do this the only options available were load from disk and diagnostics. To try and get something going I reloaded the last profile I had which was from 07. All presets were blank. After reprogramming some looks I tried to get my sodium vapor work lights to be programmed in. They worked till I hit record. So now I have no work lights and a system I wouldn't trust for another show...which is this Friday night.

Taking the day off Monday because I'm fried. My boss is going to call for a service tech to come out this week ASAP. Sadly I don't have the authority to do that. If you think I should still give you a call even with a service tech suppose to come out I will gladly take the help. Thanks!

 

[starksk]

...So Friday and Saturday when I was dealing with all these problems with the Vista and rented gear the Unison was fine. All was normal. We reset the room Saturday for Sunday and returned everything to normal settings. Fired right up with no issues and everything was perfect. Came in Sunday morning and the Unison was dead. I've been having to reset one of my two processors pretty frequently lately so I wasn't to bothered by it. Then when I hit reset...nothing. Went to check the settings and see if I had to remind it that it was processor 1 (it sometimes forgets). When I tried to do this the only options available were load from disk and diagnostics. To try and get something going I reloaded the last profile I had which was from 07. All presets were blank. After reprogramming some looks I tried to get my sodium vapor work lights to be programmed in. They worked till I hit record. So now I have no work lights and a system I wouldn't trust for another show...which is this Friday night.

Taking the day off Monday because I'm fried. My boss is going to call for a service tech to come out this week ASAP. Sadly I don't have the authority to do that. If you think I should still give you a call even with a service tech suppose to come out I will gladly take the help. Thanks!

I had a feeling that something was going on with your processor. When a networked processor fails, or starts to fail, it can do some weird things to the network data.

You should not have to reset the processor very often. (Actually, you should not need to reset it at all unless you are making changes that require a reboot.) It sounds like your processor may have seen a power surge or interruption. When that happens, it is possible that the processor wasn't able to boot properly and activated its protective boot mode which entails booting with no configuration. If that happens, pressing reset and booting normally should restore the configuration.

In your case, when you loaded a new (being the older version) configuration, did you clear the memory and load it or just load it in? If you didn't clear the memory (Initialize Flash), it is possible that parts of the older configuration are still in the memory. This conflict could be causing your inability to record properly.

In any case, based on your problem description, having a tech come look at the system and configuration would be a good choice. I also suspect that we will be seeing that processor back to us for repair.

I am sorry for the exhausting troubleshooting experience you have had this weekend. I hope you enjoy your day off!

 

[SteveB]

Kirk

This was in the original post:

"I'm well aware that Vista doesn't speak to ETC without a converter, which I don't have. However I have successfully used the Vista through ETC Net2. As long as I use house universe 3 or 4"

I read this as he has Vista directly into Net2 and might well be the initial Node problems, but his early posts didn't mention Unison issues as well.

My current read is 2 different issues going on, one with the Vista and nodes, the other the Unison. I would have him not connect Vista, then take Unison off-line, check all the nodes vis Insight/Emphasis, makes sure that stuff all works, then trouble shoot Unison - and I agree that multiple re-boots is not good, then with a "loaner" or some such - he mentions multiple processors, which I assume means multiple Unison processors, get Unison back and running, then a NEC test to see if Net actually sees Visat and doesn't have IP conflicts

 

[theatre4jc]

Just had an ETC tech out to check the system. He thinks the Unison crashing was, like mentioned above do to a power hit. Even though it's on a UPS. But he says that he thinks the processor is fine. He opened light manager and checked out the config and it turns out that the config I loaded, which was on the disks that I had, was jacked up so as soon as I loaded the old config to try and fix it, I was doomed. So now that's fixed and working properly. As for the DMX issues, turns out my node from the booth had some wacky settings. Port 3 was actually assigned to transmit U4 and port 4 was assaigned to transmit U5. While the nodes in the cats were assigned to U3 and U4. So that the system even worked at all is a miracle as I was sending out on U5 and not receiving on U5 anywhere in the building. Yet half my rig was plugged into U4 ports. Go figure, right?

So now I'm going to try and set up my Vista to see if the problem comes back. We called the service center to get an opinion and they were thinking that the lights and nodes on U3 were getting some cross over signals from the two controllers and that was possibly why things went nuts. So now that we have an idea as to the problem and I know how to possibly end it, it's time to test my Vista.

 

[starksk]

Sorry for the late reply, I have been training on our new rigging system

Steve, since Vista does not speak Net2, I read the OP's clarification as plugging into the node that transmits U3 and U4.

David, like I said, Unison can do some funny things when in a failure mode. If you or the technician has confirmed that your nodes are now properly configured, I think that you will find that there is no problem connecting your Vista to the input node.

Also, UPS like to have their batteries completely discharged and recharged at least once a year according to their manufacturer specs. If that doesn't happen, their protective value can be greatly reduced.