Budget Wireless System for small Comedy Group

[gobias]

Hi,

I'm new here and I just wanted to say thanks for all the helpful posts across this forum. It's a great resource and I've learned a heap. I'm part of a four man comedy group from Australia and we're about to do a few outdoor festivals so we're looking into buying some wireless microphones. We don't have a massive budget so we'd like to keep the cost as low as possible. The mics will primarily be used for dialogue but (very occasionally) they will be used to amplify some singing.

I am thinking about the following system: Ashton Music , which is an Ashton AWM400 with four seperate channels built in. It retails for about $1100 AUD.

For microphones, I was thinking of picking up four MM Audio MM-PSM Pro Series Directional Earset Mics from here: MM Audio - The Next Generation of Pro Audio Equipment. These will come to about $500USD.

Does anybody have any thoughts about this setup? I know nothing about the quality of either the mics or the wireless system. I'm just confused with all of the different options. I was looking at perhaps getting four Shure PGX systems with HS-09 mics, but they are about $1000 more expensive than the above option and I'm not sure what quality difference it would make.

Any comments on the above setup or suggestions on a different budget system would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again for all of your helpful posts.

Cheers,

Joel

 

[mbenonis]

Personally, I would never purchase anything less than the Shure SLX or Sennheiser 100 series. A good rule of thumb for wireless systems is that anything less than $500 USD will probably perform poorly. While I've never used the system you suggest, I would bet that you will end up replacing it with something more robust within a year or so.

If you are on a strict budget, you may be able to find used or past rental stock for a reasonable price.

 

[Chris15]

I wouldn't recommend PGX to an enemy...

I'd suggest waiting until the Green Paper comes out from Canberra on what spectrum they intend auctioning after the digital switchover is finalised before you make a decision on what to buy. But good luck finding out when that will be out.
Reason being most stuff being sold at the moment, particularly below pro level is in the upper end of the UHF TV band and most of us are expecting that to disappear in the next few years...

 

[gobias]

Thanks so much for the help guys, I really appreciate it.

I wouldn't recommend PGX to an enemy...

I'd suggest waiting until the Green Paper comes out from Canberra on what spectrum they intend auctioning after the digital switchover is finalised before you make a decision on what to buy. But good luck finding out when that will be out.
Reason being most stuff being sold at the moment, particularly below pro level is in the upper end of the UHF TV band and most of us are expecting that to disappear in the next few years...

Ok no worries, I'll avoid the PGX system. SLX is ok though you think?

This Green Paper makes things interesting. So you're saying that there's a chance that no matter what I buy it'll possibly be useless soonish if the Green Paper goes the way you're expecting it to. If that's the case, do you think it's a good idea to perhaps just buy the cheapest system that will get us by in the short term given that it may be rendered useless anyway? (we'll definitely need some mics by Feb 2010) Is the Ashton Music set within the bands that you're expecting to go soonish? It's in the 40Hz - 16Khz. Are there distinct disadvantages this has from say the SLX14s?

 

[gobias]

While I've never used the system you suggest, I would bet that you will end up replacing it with something more robust within a year or so.

Ok thanks for that. So what sort of stuff leads you to replace the cheaper systems down the track? Do they just break and cease transmitting? Or does the sound quality degrade?

Sorry for the stupid questions. I'm pretty much narrowed it down to either that system I mentioned above (the Ashton Music wireless set plus four MM Audio - The Next Generation of Pro Audio Equipment mics, which comes to about $1500) or the importing a set of four SLX14s with HS-09 mics from SHURE SLX14/HS-09 4-PACK WIRELESS MICROPHONE EARSET SYSTEM - Sigler Music Center, which will come to about $2500. Do you think the extra $1000 will ultimately save me in the long run because I'll just end up tossing the Ashton wireless?

Thanks again.

 

[BillESC]

For about $ 2000.00 USD including shipping, you can get 4 Audio Technica ATW 2110 wireless Unipak systems and 4 Pro 92cW-TH hearworn mics.

Links:

System
Audio-Technica - Microphones, headphones, wireless microphone systems, noise-cancelling headphones & more : 2000 Series Frequency-agile True Diversity UHF Wireless Systems

Mic
Audio-Technica - Microphones, headphones, wireless microphone systems, noise-cancelling headphones & more : PRO 92cW-TH : Omnidirectional Condenser Headworn Microphone

I'd never recommend a system having multiple receivers in one box, if you loose one you loose the entire system while out for repair.

 

[Chris15]

As a note to onlookers, I'm in discussions with gobias offline about available spectrum for his operational locations...

 

[gobias]

For about $ 2000.00 USD including shipping, you can get 4 Audio Technica ATW 2110 wireless Unipak systems and 4 Pro 92cW-TH hearworn mics.

Links:

System
Audio-Technica - Microphones, headphones, wireless microphone systems, noise-cancelling headphones & more : 2000 Series Frequency-agile True Diversity UHF Wireless Systems

Mic
Audio-Technica - Microphones, headphones, wireless microphone systems, noise-cancelling headphones & more : PRO 92cW-TH : Omnidirectional Condenser Headworn Microphone

I'd never recommend a system having multiple receivers in one box, if you loose one you loose the entire system while out for repair.

Ok thanks for that. I've had a squizz on ebay and it seems there are a few Audio Technica systems around for about $2000 (some come with free ATX cases and power supplies too). Where does the ATW 2110 sit in terms of quality? What does the Shure SLX system have that the ATW 2210 doesn't that makes it more expensive? Sorry I'm asking so many questions - I'm just clueless on all of this!

Cheers,

Joel

 

[gobias]

Also, any thought son the MM-PSM Pro Series Directional Earset (hyper-cardioid) for outdoor theatre performance (mostly dialogue)?

MM Audio - The Next Generation of Pro Audio Equipment

 

[gpforet]

Think carefully abou the MM directional...

I love the MMs but use the omnis. The pickup is better, and with a directional headset a la "countryman", the mic element is pointed forward along the actors head. If you need to use wedges for monitors, the mic is pointed directly at the wedges. Thereby giving up any advantage of gain before feedback. Also, since the mic is along side the actors head, an omni configuration provides better pickup. That's been my experience anyway.

Any one have different results?

Hi,

For microphones, I was thinking of picking up four MM Audio MM-PSM Pro Series Directional Earset Mics from here: MM Audio - The Next Generation of Pro Audio Equipment. These will come to about $500USD.

Any comments on the above setup or suggestions on a different budget system would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again for all of your helpful posts.

Cheers,

Joel

 

[gobias]

Think carefully abou the MM directional...

I love the MMs but use the omnis. The pickup is better, and with a directional headset a la "countryman", the mic element is pointed forward along the actors head. If you need to use wedges for monitors, the mic is pointed directly at the wedges. Thereby giving up any advantage of gain before feedback. Also, since the mic is along side the actors head, an omni configuration provides better pickup. That's been my experience anyway.

Any one have different results?

Thanks very much for that gpforet. So is a lavalier mic that is say in the hairline a better option? Or would you just opt for the omnidirectional Earset mic rather than the directional one? What's the quality of the MM mics like in general? Are they fairly flimsy and unlikely to last as long as their more expensive cousins like the OSP HS-09?

And any thoughts on the ATW2210 as compared to the Shure SLX series for theatre applications?

 

[mbenonis]

Thanks very much for that gpforet. So is a lavalier mic that is say in the hairline a better option? Or would you just opt for the omnidirectional Earset mic rather than the directional one? What's the quality of the MM mics like in general? Are they fairly flimsy and unlikely to last as long as their more expensive cousins like the OSP HS-09?

And any thoughts on the ATW2210 as compared to the Shure SLX series for theatre applications?

I seem to remember working with the OSP mics and having them break all over the place on me. I have heard consistently good things about the MM mics though I have not played with them myself. In terms of whether to go with hairline v. boom-style, I think it comes down to (a) how hidden they need to be, and (b) how much time you have to get it 'right'. If you have time to futz with placement, EQ, and have dressers who can put the mics on right, then hairline is best. But if you are limited in these areas then boom-style will provide reproducible results night-to-night and with ease (though the sound is slightly more boomy, IMO).

Re: A-T v. Shue SLX, I think the AT 3000 series is the comparable unit to the SLX. Either will provide adequate results but not what I would term professional grade. Might also look at the Sennheiser 100 series, at noted above.

 

[museav]

Is the Ashton Music set within the bands that you're expecting to go soonish? It's in the 40Hz - 16Khz.

Chris has probably addressed this with you in his offline discussions, but for others it should be noted that the 40-16,000Hz referenced is the audio frequency response for the system. That is different than the RF carrier frequency, which is what relates to the Green Paper and operating frequencies. Unfortunately, neither the product info nor manual provided on the Ashton Music web site seem to make any reference to the RF operating frequency, rather critical information whose absence is not very reassuring.

 

[gobias]

Chris has probably addressed this with you in his offline discussions, but for others it should be noted that the 40-16,000Hz referenced is the audio frequency response for the system. That is different than the RF carrier frequency, which is what relates to the Green Paper and operating frequencies. Unfortunately, neither the product info nor manual provided on the Ashton Music web site seem to make any reference to the RF operating frequency, rather critical information whose absence is not very reassuring.

Thanks very much for that museav. I might try and get in contact with Ashton to find out the RF carrier frequency. So are there any frequencies we should be wary of or is it all in the air until the Green Paper comes out?

Still a bit confused about the best option here. Aside from losing the entire system if the one box breaks down, are there any other disadvantages to having the four receivers in a single unit a-la the Ashton AWM400?

 

[BillESC]

Still a bit confused about the best option here. Aside from losing the entire system if the one box breaks down, are there any other disadvantages to having the four receivers in a single unit a-la the Ashton AWM400?

That's really the only disdvanage, but it's a big one.

 

[Chris15]

Ashton tell me the system under discussion runs 800.1 - 818.4 MHz...

(Back to my holidays)[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[gobias]

Ashton tell me the system under discussion runs 800.1 - 818.4 MHz...

(Back to my holidays)[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

Thanks for taking time out on your holiday to help out Chris. I really appreciate it.

So I'm going to do a bit of sniffing around on this Ashton system. That system combined with the MM mics is the cheapest option coming in at about $1600 AUD. I was thinking of trying to get a Shure SLX system from America, where it's a lot cheaper than Australia (would come to about $3000 AUD for four SLX wireless systems and four OSP HS-09 mics), but it looks like shipping may be a bit prohibitive. Also, aside from the risk of having the four receivers in the one box, I can't work out what the disadvantage of the Ashton system would be over dour Shure SLX systems (even though I know it's a large risk to take, it might be one we have to deal with given our budget). Plus we get the four MM mics with this setup, which everybody seems to speak favourably of.

 

[gobias]

Ok, so based on all the feedback here and a few words from others, I think I've settled on the Sennheiser EW100 series plus four MM directional dual-ear PSM microphones.

I am now looking at where to buy the sennheiser system and I've come across a relatively cheap option (one on ebay for $470 for the EW112 G3) but I'e also found the EW110G3, which is an LE set. I was just wondering what LE means and whether it would have an impact on the usability of the system in Australia.

Also, any general thoughts on the system I'm thinking of going with (EW112G3 plus the MM dual-ear mics) would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Joel