So for a show in a couple of weeks we're going to be using custom gobos (bean counters yet to decide if they'll be actually customs of what we need of the closest stock pattern we can find) in moving lights (I believe 4). My question is do we give the gobos to the hire company and have them take care of swapping in and out, or do we do it once we have the fixtures onsite? I've done it both ways on shows I've worked on, but this time I'm ME and have to figure it out. And yes, I know how to swap moving light gobos. The reason I'm not sure is some shops are really picky over anyone doing ANYTHING with their fixtures. But I'm also concerned about the fact that the shop has been know to lose/forget/screw up on small details... so I wouldn't be surprised at all if they lost/forgot the custom gobos.
Automated Fixtures Custom Gobos with Rental Fixtures
- Thread starterphotoatdv
- Start date
Ask the shop. I've never had one say I can't do it, its a pretty standard process. Just be sure to pull the gobos before the units go back... spending your day in a shop digging through cases trying to find the one that has that moon gobo in it is no fun. Also, if you can't trust your rental shop, you should get another shop.
I trust this rental shop as well as most others... I've just had so much weird sh!t happen with shops lately that I don't trust any gear unless I do shop prep myself. My favorite ones lately have been a minor problem turned into a nightmare when the shops wanna fix problems to the exclusion of all else. Example tying up half the load-in crew for an hour and a half to fix something perfectly instead of spending 5 min jury rigging something well enough the audience won't notice (great-- we have one none-too-important unit fixed, but have to cut various far more important things because of the delay). Oh, and this has happened with 2 different shops lately.
bishopthomas
Well-Known Member
After watching a couple of stagehand/box pusher types get assigned to swap gobos once I could definitely see that. About half the group was fascinated with the lights and were curious about the guts of the lights and half were attempting brute force methods of install (first half got taught how to do it second half got reassigned once myself and a couple of other lighting techs got involved).
As a rental shop, it would be my preference to load the custom gobos into the fixtures in the shop, with my own techs, before the fixtures head out the door. We would do this free of charge. I would prefer this for two reasons... 1) My guy has had training on the fixture, knows all of its working parts, and does this often...less chance of damaging the fixture, or installing the gobo incorrectly. 2) Convenience for the customer...less work for them! That being said, there are also times when we would be okay with the rental customer doing this. It just depends on the skill level and experience of the people involved. If I was an ME, and I had a good relationship with the shop, I would want the shop to do this as part of their prep, because it is going to save me time during the load-in and getting the fixtures into the air faster.
It sounds as though you don't have complete confidence in your shop...especially if you say that they have been known to screw up the small details, as it is the small details that really matter and make the difference for the LD or ME when working with the shop. Also, your recent example of the lighting company holding up your load-in...a good lighting company should have sent spare fixtures. Strike the broken fixture, replace it with a spare, and move on. No delay. The fixtures get fixed later during down time, or when it gets back to the shop.
BRANDON
It sounds as though you don't have complete confidence in your shop...especially if you say that they have been known to screw up the small details, as it is the small details that really matter and make the difference for the LD or ME when working with the shop. Also, your recent example of the lighting company holding up your load-in...a good lighting company should have sent spare fixtures. Strike the broken fixture, replace it with a spare, and move on. No delay. The fixtures get fixed later during down time, or when it gets back to the shop.
BRANDON
bishopthomas
Well-Known Member
I would have to say that this greatly depends on the situation. If you're renting 4 moving lights do not expect to get one thrown in as a "spare." Chances are they're coming in two- or four-packs so you're definitely not getting another pair for free. If you're renting 100 ML's then I don't mind sending a few backups. Now, spare lamps are another story...
I agree with this. The spare comes from the shop, rushed to the venue. Things do happen and it's important to be able to correct an issue quickly, which often means replacement rather than repair. But I do not agree that every rental gets spare fixtures included, that's just not a feasible plan.
In one of these cases they did get a spare from the shop-- however we were ready to fly the rig (within 10 minutes) when the problem was discovered. I told them to do a simple jury-rig which would have worked well enough it's doubtful we would be able to tell the difference, and had no chance of hurting their light, but they insisted on on fixing it right by waiting til someone could be called in to go to the shop and bring a replacement. So in order to be perfect they cost us nearly 2 hours on loadin and cut into our programmer's time. In the other case something important got forgotten (but one of our crew offered a solution of borrowing the correct parts from his theatre which was 5 minutes away), yet the shop sent a guy (who happened to be the only one who know how to set up any lighting) back to the shop nearly 2 hours away. Again over protests from the clients-- but they "wanted it to be right". Don't know what the deal is, but both of these were with different companies I work with, both of whom ususally do an excellent job.
On that note, how would you handle it as ME or LD, when a company wants to do this?
I think that the best way to combat something like this would be to determine in advance who has chain of command over whatever production labor the lighting company is sending to the show. I like it when the producer hires their own production electrician who is working in the best interests of the producer and production and has final say over everything in the department but at the same time I okay providing the PE/ME. It all depends on the size and scale of the show really. Unfortunately, lighting companies are not always going to have the best interests of their customers in mind. Unless it is a matter of life-safety, damage to the rig, or damage to the production in any way, there is no reason why the lighting company should be holding up a load-in for two hours! In your case, the client should have decided right away on the spot what was more valuable...proceeding without the fixture operational, waiting for a replacement, or deciding if the issue could have been fixed after the rig was in the air. Regardless, there needs to be a person in charge to make those decisions, preferably one that works for the producer or production and not the lighting company.
Again, a good lighting company is going to have spares on site, whether there are four fixtures, forty, or four-hundred, you can bet any amount of money that I am going to have spare fixtures there just in case. No one will be waiting on us for two hours to fix a fixture onsite.
BRANDON
Again, a good lighting company is going to have spares on site, whether there are four fixtures, forty, or four-hundred, you can bet any amount of money that I am going to have spare fixtures there just in case. No one will be waiting on us for two hours to fix a fixture onsite.
BRANDON
I have never asked a rental company to pre-install gobos (or gels for that matter). I also have ordered custom gobos for Robe & high end movers and haven't asked for those to be pre-installed either. To each his own I guess!
PS, funny story about spares:
I was PM'ing a show last year in Costa Rica that called for 16 moving lights (I don't specify brand, I'm not a lighting guy so could care less). I get to the venue where they have already unloaded the trucks, and notice they have pulled 30 moving lights out of cases. I head over to the production translator (who works for the local rental company) and said "gee that sure looks like alot of moving lights!". To which he responds "Yeah we always bring more than you ask because usually half of them don't work" LOL.
PS, funny story about spares:
I was PM'ing a show last year in Costa Rica that called for 16 moving lights (I don't specify brand, I'm not a lighting guy so could care less). I get to the venue where they have already unloaded the trucks, and notice they have pulled 30 moving lights out of cases. I head over to the production translator (who works for the local rental company) and said "gee that sure looks like alot of moving lights!". To which he responds "Yeah we always bring more than you ask because usually half of them don't work" LOL.
So, I'm just wondering...when you use custom patterns and install them yourself into rental fixtures, does the lighting company know that you are cracking their fixtures open and doing this work? If you have told them, what has their reaction been??
Just curious... Thanks!
BRANDON
bishopthomas
Well-Known Member
It depends on who you're talking to at the gig. You need to be talking to the "boss" as that's the only way to get your point across. Tell him that you need to get the rig in the air immediately and cannot wait hours for them to fix it. If they're not happy with that, especially after coming up with a "jury-rigged" solution, you tell them that if they're leaving to go back to the shop they might as well take the rig with them. Usually that bluff will be enough to get your point across then you can assess whether or not to hire this company again in the future.
When there is a problem the bosses need to decide. I work on both sides of the equation, supplying and renting, if there is a question of holding up the load-in the person paying the bill needs to decide. Many times it is a cross between a labor supplier, client and the show. The last person that gets a vote is the equipment guy. If the onsite says he wants to stop everything and the client says no and he won't take for an answer then his boss needs a phonecall. It is the same way if the client wants to wait and the equipment guys says he doesn't want to fix the problem, call his boss.
