Daylight temp. lamp for a PAR64 fixture

Reggie

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Oct 30, 2003
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New Jersey
Thanks for the quick reply. I should have been more explicit in my initial post. Helping someone of limited but with their problem. PAR can are cheap and readily available. Renting an LED version of the Source4 is not in the budget.
 

icewolf08

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Lititz, PA
You are not going to be able to get a tungsten lamp with that high a color temp. A CTB gel is not going to cause the loss of that many lumens. Those CTBs are pretty high transmission gels.
 

Footer

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In order to get "daylight" out of tungsten you either need to put a filter in or get a lamp that has a filter blown onto it. If you want the lamp to produce that color you need to do what the film guys do, either go with an HMI source, a florescent source, or an LED source. If you are concerned about intensity, double up the units w/ a filter.
 

Reggie

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Oct 30, 2003
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New Jersey
Researching for an acquaintance who insists that someone told him of a 5500K PAR 64 globe. I seriously doubted that such an animal existed, but thought I'd throw it out there. I have answers for him, they are not the ones he wants to hear or can afford. Was looking to see if any theater lighting technology might be able to fill the bill.

As far as correcting a Tungsten source, can be pretty futile if it's you primary source, substituting for sunlight through a window. Full CTB 36% transmission, on a 1k, total waste of time. 1/2CTB 52% transmission. He might just as well go with an ARRI 1.8k HMI, but that's outside of the budget.
 

llburg

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Aug 4, 2012
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Eastern Iowa
Your acquaintance was most likely thinking of this :


Which is an unusual creation, not very popular and pretty expensive. Worth noting that this does not absolve the need of a ballast and igniter.

I doubt anyone is still making these, they were kind of a stopgap halfway thing, before true interchangeable lens and single ended lamp pars.
 

Reggie

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Oct 30, 2003
Location
New Jersey
Ceramic discharge? No? Or is the lamp from an old style ARRI HMI PAR lamphead. Those would be pretty obollete.

Sadly, this person is trying to accomplish the impossible. A "clean" daylight look, illuminated through a window on a paupers budget. Hence his attraction to lamps, rumored to exist for a simple instrument like a PAR can.
 

Amiers

Renting to Corporate One Fixture at a Time.
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May 28, 2009
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Phoenix, Az
Well through a series of mirrors you can get real sunlight if the budget is that small.
 

Reggie

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Oct 30, 2003
Location
New Jersey
Well through a series of mirrors you can get real sunlight if the budget is that small.
Bounce and diffusion has already been covered with the OP. Reality is that light quantity and quality (color temp.) varies throughout the day, so a longish daylight scene needs supplemental lighting.

The only question that was needing a definitive answer was the existence of a 5500K PAR64 globe. I'm thinking no, so the solution is lighting of another more expensive type. Just trying to present the facts so this person can move on to coping with reality.
 

Reggie

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Oct 30, 2003
Location
New Jersey
Perhaps a "true" MoleFAY ? The 650W PAR36 ANSI FAY lamp has a color temp of 5000K. Most 8-light 9-light (for stage use) are lamped with the 3200K DWE.
Totally forgot about them!
Trouble is that I know plenty of house renting Mole 9 and 12 lights, but none have the FAY globes. Reminds me that B&M makes an LED nine light, I'll have to see what color temp and CRI of the LEDs are. That should be an affordable rental option.

Thanks!
 

ship

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Illinois
Brilliant solution Derek, this dependant on optics needed. FAY lamps are a 25̊x 15̊ Beam angle spot lamps as with the screw terminal version for audience blinders FBE. A little cheaper to rent possibly. Talking Mole for a one-lite, either for two or four lite, Mole for six light, audience blinder for eight light and Mole for nine light normally I think.

The FGK was the MFL version of the 5,0K 20x30̊ beam angle lamp with screw terminals for audience blinders. I have ten or possibly a few dozen more of the very discontinued 35 hour lamp in stock. Don's bulbs you will pay lots for them, others might have a few in stock if I didn't buy them out for them if reasionable in price... wouldn't be a normal or easy rental = expensive for me.

Sorry, don't remember but perhaps Osram came up with a version of their AlumiPAR lamp in the 5K range for color correction. Worth a search or asking Mark. If not, I think it most cost effective in just doing color correction. I doubt the designer will be able to tell the loss of output. I also believe most of the GE CID and Osram HID series of this PAR 64 lamp for metal halide is long gone discontinued.
 

ship

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Illinois
Totally forgot about them!
Trouble is that I know plenty of house renting Mole 9 and 12 lights, but none have the FAY globes. Reminds me that B&M makes an LED nine light, I'll have to see what color temp and CRI of the LEDs are. That should be an affordable rental option.

Thanks!
Going LED is a better option perhaps. Wifie prep's LED Leko's often and there is lots of concepts of Fresnel and PAR or other ger out there. Ushio has some very interesting LED gear. Main question in a wide ranging subject of PAR beam to audience blinder/9-lite, what's the goal of getting this beam or wash of light?

Given an assigned 5,0K color temperature, it is of question of the type of beam spread mostly transformed into as to what gear might provide it.
 

ship

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if a look thru a window, wouldn't 5K fluorescent lamps work? Say make or buy some louvers for them if you need to more directional the light, but still with an accurate sunlight wash. Think about what a say 4" or 6" boxed louver would do for the otherwise spread source of light in controlling but also allowing it to spread naturally without having to frost or silk it - that you would with other sources to blend. A rented ColorBlast could also with louver do this dependant on beam spread, as with other perhaps rented LED wash lights louvered and assuming a shorter focal length. CRI for LED's isn't bad these days either for fluorescent or LED = and believe me I have been a hold off for LED's for years now.

Just finished making some T-8 black light 4-light units for a tour. I chose surface mount fixtures and they were in bent reflector mounted assembly totally insufficient to rig or survive a tour. (Way too "cost effective" - China'd up for production of the ligthts in how they were made.) Fabricated some 1/2" plywood box frames to house the fixtures and now all is good once a bunch of screws and thru-bolts added. Show wouldn't want a white reflector so the fixtures mounted into the frames are being painted black - though mirroring will have probably been better for a reflector paint with black light. Once the fixture was mounted in a frame, and reflector mirror or black, easy enough to mount a louver to it if needed. This either bought or made. This was for a reflector based 4-lamp T-8 light, overall cost in parts including the black light lamps was just under $200.00 each. (About $50.00 for lamps, around if I remember correctly $78.00 for the lights and some padding for lumber materials used.)

I could have assembled on a piece of plywood two 2-light surface normal fixtures without a reflector (I'm not using) much cheaper and probably with a similar result for output and structure once boxed in. I was building something for rock and roll touring to replace my old T-12 line of lights I think I gave away years ago and only had single lamp versions of. Certainly in concept one could build some T-8 four or more light banks with louvers for an estimated under $100.00 each in parts for a concept from store bought parts and lamps in the 5K range.

On the other hand I'm also retrofitting the old paint booth light fixtures with three lamp high output T-12 lamps for four lamp T-5 high output lamps. Achieving about 1/3 more intensity. T-5 lamps are great, a little more costly and unless you can fabricate from parts would not be cheap to do if you buy the light fixture, but an option in more intensity than even a Ushio high output T-8 four bank 5K lamp can do. (Shop is going for overhead lighting Ushio 5K high output - good lamp.)
 

JD

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Jan 1, 2005
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North Wales PA
Ship the goal, is getting a clean, stark daylight look through a window that an HMI provides, but on a shoestring budget. Hence the initial search for the (mythical) daylight PAR64 globe and the need to have less than the 50% transmission loss through the use of color correction filters on Tungsten.
Let's break this down:
1) "stark daylight look through a window that an HMI provides"
2) "shoestring budget"

To me, the answer would be to rent a mover that uses a discharge lamp for the show. That will give you the beam effect with the right native color temperature, and the ability to mechanically fade in/out in one mountable package.
 

DELO72

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Aug 8, 2007
Location
New Hampshire
Renting a Mover for a daylight look through a window is like renting a Car so you have access to a radio.

In my humble opinion, Just use CTB [thanks for that catch! I originally had CTO. I meant to say Color Correction Gel] or a light blue gel in front of a normal PAR. THAT is the cheap and fast solution that the OP is looking for. Anything else adds complexity and cost which the OP says they don't want. HID PARs are long discontinued. Another option is to rent a small K5600 (or Mole, or ARRI, etc.) ~400W-800W HMI fixture and a DMX controlled Louver. That will give them the Color and output they are seeking, without the added mover complexity of ~19 channels of DMX they won't use.
 
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techieman33

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Nov 7, 2004
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topeka, ks
Renting a Mover for a daylight look through a window is like renting a Car so you have access to a radio.

In my humble opinion, Just use CTO or a gel in front of a normal PAR. THAT is the cheap and fast solution that the OP is looking for. Anything else adds complexity and cost which the OP says they don't want. HID PARs are long discontinued. Another option is to rent a small K5600 (or Mole, or ARRI, etc.) ~400W-800W HMI fixture and a DMX controlled Louver. That will give them the Color and output they are seeking, without the added mover complexity of ~19 channels of DMX they won't use.
CTB, not CTO. CTO would give them a lower color temp.
 

ship

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Location
Illinois
Let's break this down:
1) "stark daylight look through a window that an HMI provides"
2) "shoestring budget"

To me, the answer would be to rent a mover that uses a discharge lamp for the show. That will give you the beam effect with the right native color temperature, and the ability to mechanically fade in/out in one mountable package.

Would also be considering beam angle for source and throw distance not given. If out a window for such - an effect, I would suspect throw distance limited, a few PAR WFL's might do it assuming blending of beam, or my thoughts above in fluorescent light bought or rented LED fixture to cover a general area from a direction.

All good ideas, but more onto Reggie to provide more details about set and plot and the overall importance. If wanting to go HMI PAR 64 for a out of window effect, it's surely important for a reason un-known that can't be supplemented FOH and needs the intensity at proper color temp.