DMX dimmer question
- Thread starterjimmol
- Start date
Corbettlight
Active Member
Elation Stage Setter 24
I am using it in the 2x12 mode which allows the scenes to be controlled by sliders 13-24. I have a one dimmer box too many to use in this configuration but wondered if I could add additional lights for some parts of the stage using the spare box assigned to the same 4 channels as one of the other boxes. Looks like I can.
Last edited:
Corbettlight
Active Member
Yep, you can. Judging by your board, I think that would be the easiest and most effective solution.
David Ashton
Well-Known Member
Hmm, Maybe I am not using the right terminology. I am trying to record "Scene Masters" I thought I read that you can only record in the 12x12 mode. But the instructions are unclear as to what I can really do in 1/24 mode: it says it can record "Bump Scenes" and then it talks about recording "Scenes" so I will have to get it out and give it a try.
Thanks for the tip.
Bear in mind that a key difference between the Scene Setter and the Stage Setter is that the Scene Setter allows soft patching with gives far more flexibility and the Scene Setter also comes in a 2*24 version. If you are ever considering buying one of these boards it is worth remembering the differences. The Stage Setter is more useful for small band work because it has 5 pre-recorded effects chases and allows you to program 10 of your own and run them from effects buttons. On the scene Setter you have to program the effects onto the Scene mater faders although you can have four pages of them.
You can have multiple dimmer packs set to the same address with either console.
Both boards can operate in three modes: 2*12; 1*24; and 12*12. You can only program scenes in the 12*12 mode. Note effects can be programmed in all three modes.
However on the Stage Setter if you have it in the 2*12 mode you are limited to using only 12 channels i.e. you can only use DMX addresses 1 through 12.
If you are using the 1*24 then you can use DMX addresses 1 through 24.
If you are using it in 12*12 mode then you can use preset A to act as slider control of dimmer packs set to DMX address 1 through 12. The Preset B sliders are also tied to the Bump buttons. In this mode you can program sliders 13 through 24 as scene faders when you bring up the slider the scene will run at whatever intensity you select with the fader. If you press the bump button the Scene will run at full intensity. These are called the Scene Playback faders i the manual, I never remember the programming steps for this board but it is relatively straightforward and should be printed on the underside of the console it is also found on Page 16 of the manual under the heading of "Scene Bump Masters".
Can you post more details of what you are trying to do.
You can have multiple dimmer packs set to the same address with either console.
Both boards can operate in three modes: 2*12; 1*24; and 12*12. You can only program scenes in the 12*12 mode. Note effects can be programmed in all three modes.
However on the Stage Setter if you have it in the 2*12 mode you are limited to using only 12 channels i.e. you can only use DMX addresses 1 through 12.
If you are using the 1*24 then you can use DMX addresses 1 through 24.
If you are using it in 12*12 mode then you can use preset A to act as slider control of dimmer packs set to DMX address 1 through 12. The Preset B sliders are also tied to the Bump buttons. In this mode you can program sliders 13 through 24 as scene faders when you bring up the slider the scene will run at whatever intensity you select with the fader. If you press the bump button the Scene will run at full intensity. These are called the Scene Playback faders i the manual, I never remember the programming steps for this board but it is relatively straightforward and should be printed on the underside of the console it is also found on Page 16 of the manual under the heading of "Scene Bump Masters".
Can you post more details of what you are trying to do.
I am trying to use lighting to illuminate and bring the audiences attention to what is happening on different parts of the stage on a shoe string budget.
That's the short answer. I wanted it to be easy to use, just having to press a button or move on slider to bring up the lights for a scene. We really haven't the need for the chase scenes. The Stage Pak 2 was the price we could afford for what we needed to do. I like the idea of an extra dimmer box over Stage Pack 1.
I have been able to program scenes easily and in the test phase it has worked well, though one time the whole thing stopped transmitting light levels to the dimmer boxes, the console was showing the right thing, indicator lights coming up when sliders went up, the dimmer boxes were showing they were receiving a signal, but the indicator lights were not going up. We were using both DMX out from the console and were well under loads, 3 different breakers...but I did not have the terminators in yet. Also since we are not quit sure where the lights will end up, we are extension cording everything (5 amps max per chord) until we can hard wire everything. One electrician thought the extra length of the cords could have added amps and overloaded a box. Live and learn.
Thanks for the information. History and more info below
Jim
History: We have started a worship service in the gym and are finally to the point of adding more lights. Started off with 4 par 64s (500s) lighting the entire 36 x 10 stage area. They were wired to two light switches. Then the school offered to pay part for a board and dimmer box system. I was able to pick up an Elation Stage Pak 2 for $420. Now we could vary the 4 PARs. A member donated $240 for some more lights. I found Chauvet Par 56 (300w) Twin packs for $60 a piece on Amazon. So I divided the stage into 5 areas, 4 for the band (two on each side of center), one for the guy who talks each service.
At current I am using 2 Par 64s fanned, for the instruments and two par 56 for each side where singers stand. I use two Par 56 with beams turned vertical for the speaker and altar. I have two Par 56 coming off the wall as backlights (the stage starts at the wall), but at a 30 degrees angle, so they actually cover both singers and band.
That's the short answer. I wanted it to be easy to use, just having to press a button or move on slider to bring up the lights for a scene. We really haven't the need for the chase scenes. The Stage Pak 2 was the price we could afford for what we needed to do. I like the idea of an extra dimmer box over Stage Pack 1.
I have been able to program scenes easily and in the test phase it has worked well, though one time the whole thing stopped transmitting light levels to the dimmer boxes, the console was showing the right thing, indicator lights coming up when sliders went up, the dimmer boxes were showing they were receiving a signal, but the indicator lights were not going up. We were using both DMX out from the console and were well under loads, 3 different breakers...but I did not have the terminators in yet. Also since we are not quit sure where the lights will end up, we are extension cording everything (5 amps max per chord) until we can hard wire everything. One electrician thought the extra length of the cords could have added amps and overloaded a box. Live and learn.
Thanks for the information. History and more info below
Jim
History: We have started a worship service in the gym and are finally to the point of adding more lights. Started off with 4 par 64s (500s) lighting the entire 36 x 10 stage area. They were wired to two light switches. Then the school offered to pay part for a board and dimmer box system. I was able to pick up an Elation Stage Pak 2 for $420. Now we could vary the 4 PARs. A member donated $240 for some more lights. I found Chauvet Par 56 (300w) Twin packs for $60 a piece on Amazon. So I divided the stage into 5 areas, 4 for the band (two on each side of center), one for the guy who talks each service.
At current I am using 2 Par 64s fanned, for the instruments and two par 56 for each side where singers stand. I use two Par 56 with beams turned vertical for the speaker and altar. I have two Par 56 coming off the wall as backlights (the stage starts at the wall), but at a 30 degrees angle, so they actually cover both singers and band.
If I understand your post correctly you have programmed the scene faders and when you bring up one of the 13 to 24 faders you see the correct LEDS light up - so if Scene Fader 13 is programmed to control channels 1, 3 and 6 all three of these channel LEDs turn on when fader 13 is at 100%. You are using the DP415 dimmer boxes which use the DIP Switches to set the DMX address. You are seeing the DMX LED flashing but the channels do not turn on.
If this is what is happening I generally check the following assuming the yellow LED is on showing that the control board is powered:
1) make sure the DMX address is correctly set very easy to set the wrong address. When you bring up the slider you should also see the channel LEDs on the DP415 packs turn on as well - you post is saying no. If the LEDS turn on correctly on the board and not the pack and the DMX LED is flashing it is most likely a DMX address issue on the pack. If the DMX LED is flashing the board is receiving DMX it does not mean it is correctly addressed.
2) use a very short cable does it work? if so try your other cable again if it does not work now you probably have eith a Data + or Data - broken wire in the cable. The symptoms you describe of ït suddenly stopped working" would make me check there is not a cable fault, have you tried wiggling the cable to see what happens?
3) Have you checked the fuses? Use a meter do not just check visually.
Adding extra lengths of wire does not add amps as suggested by your electrician it introduces more line resistance which reduces the amount of current that can pass through the circuit. This will reduce the voltage available at the dimmer pack and reduces the maximum intensity of the lights. If the voltage drop is large enough then you run the risk of the internal voltage regulator that provides the +5V supply voltage to the logic devices turning off as the regulator enters "drop-out" But you can easily check this by plugging the dimmer pack directly into a wall outlet. If this is really what is happening using a larger guage power cord i.e. use a 12AWG instead of a 16AWG. Note there is an internal fuse on this control board but if it has failed you need to get someone who knows how to repair and check out the dimmer to take a look. However this would be unlikely to happen in the middle of something unless the voltage of the building supply varies - does happen depending on where you are and the time of day. At my house the voltage varies between 120V and 125V - at a church I go to it varies between 114v and 119V. These packs cope with all of these without problems.
If I have misunderstood you post let me know or PM me.
Am I correct in assuming that this is happening with all your packs or just on? If just one pack change the DMX
If this is what is happening I generally check the following assuming the yellow LED is on showing that the control board is powered:
1) make sure the DMX address is correctly set very easy to set the wrong address. When you bring up the slider you should also see the channel LEDs on the DP415 packs turn on as well - you post is saying no. If the LEDS turn on correctly on the board and not the pack and the DMX LED is flashing it is most likely a DMX address issue on the pack. If the DMX LED is flashing the board is receiving DMX it does not mean it is correctly addressed.
2) use a very short cable does it work? if so try your other cable again if it does not work now you probably have eith a Data + or Data - broken wire in the cable. The symptoms you describe of ït suddenly stopped working" would make me check there is not a cable fault, have you tried wiggling the cable to see what happens?
3) Have you checked the fuses? Use a meter do not just check visually.
Adding extra lengths of wire does not add amps as suggested by your electrician it introduces more line resistance which reduces the amount of current that can pass through the circuit. This will reduce the voltage available at the dimmer pack and reduces the maximum intensity of the lights. If the voltage drop is large enough then you run the risk of the internal voltage regulator that provides the +5V supply voltage to the logic devices turning off as the regulator enters "drop-out" But you can easily check this by plugging the dimmer pack directly into a wall outlet. If this is really what is happening using a larger guage power cord i.e. use a 12AWG instead of a 16AWG. Note there is an internal fuse on this control board but if it has failed you need to get someone who knows how to repair and check out the dimmer to take a look. However this would be unlikely to happen in the middle of something unless the voltage of the building supply varies - does happen depending on where you are and the time of day. At my house the voltage varies between 120V and 125V - at a church I go to it varies between 114v and 119V. These packs cope with all of these without problems.
If I have misunderstood you post let me know or PM me.
Am I correct in assuming that this is happening with all your packs or just on? If just one pack change the DMX
The problem is no one could remember if we saw the channel light on the dimmer boxes. The yellow LED was on the dimmer box was on. We did have all 3 dimmer boxed on.
I do not think the channel LEDs were on as I was concerned if the DMX LED was on and it was. And the LEDs were working on the board. the system had been working for an hour and a half before it stopped working so I know the addresses were set right. Also, I could raise #1 and it would go up, all the way to #12 while it was working.
church;1528 2) use a very short cable does it work? if so try your other cable again if it does not work now you probably have eith a Data + or Data - broken [autolink said:
For the box behind the light controller I was using a DMX and an XLR cable since I did not have a DMX long enough - this is just a testing phase and I will be purchasing DMX cable for the final setup. I was having some problems with the used DMX-20L dimmer box as I was setting it up, but during the hour long practice it worked fine. Also, we are using one DMX output from the board for the DMX-20L and the other for the other 2 415 dimmer boxes. When the system stopped we tried turning everything off and on, the board, the dimmers via the breakers and they would not work. Two days later as I was getting ready to test the system again, the DMX-20L was acting up. I removed the two cables and replace it with a shorter XLR and it, and the rest of the system then worked for 11 hours straight - well, I set the programed sliders up to 100% and it stayed on for 11 hours. I am also using a 100 foot XLR to get to the boxes in the ceiling. It will be replace when we finalize the dimmer box locations.
I will get one and add it to our equipment.church;152894 3) Have you checked the fuses? Use a [autolink said:
The dimmer boxes in the gym ceiling are next to the outlet.
I am running chords to the lights from the dimmer boxes. Only two are 100 foot long, carrying 5 amps each (2 300 watt PAR 56 light on each) and we run them 80% max.
I believe we have a voltage tester so I can test the voltage coming out to something plugged in. I will give it a try when we set up next.
Sincere thanks for all the advice. I was going to post a request after we did the next practice if we had problems.
From what you said it seems that the DMX/XLR combo chord to the real dimmer box was the problem. At least it will go full on for 11 hours, we will see if it works at practice this Sunday Morning.
Didn't I read somewhere there is a box (not just DMX termination that stops the echo) that will stop one dimmer with a fault from bringing down the rest of the system?
Thanks
See opto-splitter. In this application, a DMX line would need to be run to each dimmer pack, eliminating the benefit of being able to daisy chain the packs.
Derek's advice re is very good. I build my own with opto-isolation and they help tremndously.
Although the use of microphone cable is frowned upon for DMX (standard XLR) it does work with this type of equipment, I have used 200ft without problems because it was already there. I once had a problem where I repaired a commercial opto-isolator box. It did not work in the customers rig but it worked in the workshop with a 6ft cable. The problem was a broken internal wire between the printed circuit board and the 5 pin XLR connector for DATA-. However when a 15ft cable was used it did not work. The issue is to do with the "noise margin" within the differential amplifier inside the RS485 receiver chip. It was an easy fix. But I am always careful to make sure I check out equipment using long cables - just because it works with a short cable doesn't mean it will work with a long cable.
I also have the 20L dimmer packs in inventory. I have repaired a number of both these types of units for rental shops and customers and they are pretty good value for the money - you can spend significantly more dollars for so called better name products and you are buying pretty much the same thing although they may look different.
All the components are the same components as all the more expensive brand name manufacturers. The quality of the soldered joints is excellent. The reason I have repaired a number of these is straightforward: more of them get sold than the more expensive items for use by small bands, churches, people making their own videos etc. they get dropped by accident, they get plugged into audio snakes with phantom power connected and they get overloaded because people accidently plug too much load into them. The worst case was someone actually plugged an electric drill into it to control the drill speed.
PM me if I can help further
Although the use of microphone cable is frowned upon for DMX (standard XLR) it does work with this type of equipment, I have used 200ft without problems because it was already there. I once had a problem where I repaired a commercial opto-isolator box. It did not work in the customers rig but it worked in the workshop with a 6ft cable. The problem was a broken internal wire between the printed circuit board and the 5 pin XLR connector for DATA-. However when a 15ft cable was used it did not work. The issue is to do with the "noise margin" within the differential amplifier inside the RS485 receiver chip. It was an easy fix. But I am always careful to make sure I check out equipment using long cables - just because it works with a short cable doesn't mean it will work with a long cable.
I also have the 20L dimmer packs in inventory. I have repaired a number of both these types of units for rental shops and customers and they are pretty good value for the money - you can spend significantly more dollars for so called better name products and you are buying pretty much the same thing although they may look different.
All the components are the same components as all the more expensive brand name manufacturers. The quality of the soldered joints is excellent. The reason I have repaired a number of these is straightforward: more of them get sold than the more expensive items for use by small bands, churches, people making their own videos etc. they get dropped by accident, they get plugged into audio snakes with phantom power connected and they get overloaded because people accidently plug too much load into them. The worst case was someone actually plugged an electric drill into it to control the drill speed.
PM me if I can help further
I recently picked up a Chauvet Data Stream 4 and am very happy with its performance (especially for the price). I am particularly encouraged that it has side by side 3 pin and 5 pin connectors. It is, not only, an isolator, but a media converter built in.
It appears that Chauvet's efforts to move up the vendor food chain are continuing throughout their product line.
Tim.
It appears that Chauvet's efforts to move up the vendor food chain are continuing throughout their product line.
Tim.
Thanks for the update! Glad to see your Isolator is still working great. I'm about to go pick one up for myself as my spare Doug Fleenor just died. I love how the Data Stream 4 is rack mountable. Looks like a solid product and for that price, I just can't pass it up.
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