DMX Inputs as outputs

[ccm1495]

So ... The high school in my town got 4 icues.
I am on crew for the high school pays and i have asked if we can borrow the icues for the middle school theater since they happen at totally different times. The stage at the high school has has dmx out plugs. The middle school has to dmx plugs one at the back and one in the wing of the stage. I was wondering if i could use the out on the stage with a gender bender to use it to drive the icues. I don't want to have to run cable all the way from the computer in the back i don't have that much DMX!!

Thanks

 

[derekleffew]

A definitive MAYBE. But it'll probably cost more than running a cable from booth to stage.

...The building is likely wired one of three ways:
1) Booth DMX Input goes to dimmers' DMX Input A and Stage DMX Input goes to dimmers' DMX Input B, and dimmers are set to take either or both on an HTP basis. This is the only "proper" wiring, but means that the Stage Input cannot be used as an output.
2) The Booth DMX Input loops through the Stage DMX Input, then onto the dimmers.
3) The Booth DMX Input and the Stage DMX Input are both homerun to the dimmers, where they are two-fered on the same dimmer input.
Both 2&3 are incorrect, but you could, with an A5F-A5F turnaround or cable, use the Stage Input as an Output. IF you're going to do this, it IS STRONGLY ADVISED that you use an opto-isolator immediately after the Stage "output." ...

See the threads http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/20550-3-pin-dmx.html and http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/16644-dmx-jacks.html .

 

[ccm1495]

Found Neutrik NA5FF 5 Pin XLR Female to Female Adapter for $11.95 Neutrik USA Inc Neutrik NA5FF 5 Pin XLR Female to Female Adapter - Wired XLR to XLR Adapters at Markertek.com

I wonder if this would work to convert the input to an output. The dmx outputs at the high school are 5 pin then they go into power supplys before they go to the icues then they come out 4 pin.

If i were to run a cable from the lights laptop i would need a splitter.

 

[gcpsoundlight]

The 4 pin connector on the I-cue is for a scroller, as the i-cue does not have built in colour capabilities. There should be a 5 (or possably 3) pin XLR somewhere, that is the DMX in. I suspect there would be smoke if you plugged into the 4 pin connector!

 

[Scarrgo]

The I-cue has two 4 pin xlr, one male one female, If can use the 4 pin to drive another i-cue as long as you watch your distance(head feet), and remember, the 4 pin cable has power running in it.... so, be careful what you plug that 4 pin into

Sean

 

[DuckJordan]

What was totally missed here in everyone's post except for dereks post, is ITS PROBABLY RUN TO THE DIMMERS FIRST THEN AN OUT FROM THE DIMMERS, if thats the case you could seriously damage the dimmer racks at the school. SO instead of finding how to plug those in and finding the equipment find out if what both me and derek suspect and that you would just be wasting time, money, and good working equipment on a project that would probably just be easier to ask the high school for some DMX cable as well.

 

[MNicolai]

Duck is right. If you have dumb DMX inputs and outputs, more like a mic snake, a turnaround adapter would be fine, but odds are you've got a much more intelligent setup than that. Many installs these days have opto-isolaters, networking gateways, and other distribution equipment. While there probably is way to make it work, it's best to just run the cables unless you want to bring in a service tech and have them reconfigure your system for you or possibly tell you that there isn't any good way to do what you want to do without a very high price tag.

I would be very surprised though if you were able to damage a dimmer rack by sending a DMX signal the wrong way on the chain, though. You might cause some weird things to happen in your system, but it's unlikely any lasting damage would occur.

 

[ccm1495]

I Will check out how it is wired next week it may have been wired wrong in the first place because it was done on the cheep, not all the fixtures are a one to one patches either. the second electric as only 5 Circuits!! AHHHHH!!!! Thats why i need a dmx out or a dmx splitter that is cheep. This is all so i can borrow the icues for the specials that i don't have enough dimmers for.


By the way the dimmer rack is an ETC Sensor Rack

any suggestions for a cheep dmx 5 pin splitter would be help full or a way that i could get an output off the ETC Dimmer Rack maybe in a year or two we will have the money for some more dimmer modules.

 

[derekleffew]

... The dmx outputs at the high school are 5 pin then they go into splitters before they go to the icues then they come out 4 pin. ...

Replace the word "splitters" above with "power supply". Correct singular/plural as necessary.

... any suggestions for a cheep dmx 5 pin splitter would be help full ...

Follow the link in the wiki entry opto-splitter to the inexpensive Enttec D-Split. 99 USD.

... or a way that i could get an output off the ETC Dimmer Rack ...

It is unfortunate that no installation dimmer racks are supplied with DMX out/thru connectors. [MENTION=5717]starksk[/MENTION], [MENTION=2720]STEVETERRY[/MENTION], or (other dimmer manufacturer representative), are there any issues with a Qualified Individual adding such a jack to an installed rack? Or running appropriate DMX cabling (in conduit if required) to a more convenient outlet on stage?
On the other hand, most racks are installed in dimmer rooms, where a data output would not be terribly beneficial.

 

[ccm1495]

Are dimmer room is on the side of the stage and the catwalk entrance is in there so if there was a way to loop the dmx threw the rack it would actually be in a good location. I will look at the links you posted THanks

 

[MNicolai]

I spoke to a couple colleagues over in Dimming. They do not recall how Sensor classic racks are setup internally, but Sensor+ racks already have a pass-thru connector internally. A service tech could easily land some wires on that and give you an output if that output is not already being used somewhere else. They could even use your existing wiring and switch the receptacle onstage if you wanted it to be a permanent output. Do you know if you have Sensor Classic or Sensor+? (with Sensor Classic, the top of the rack has red indicator lights while Sensor+ have blue indicators)

The other option is to put an opto-isolator/splitter in front of the rack on the DMX chain, and have one output of that go to your dimming rack and another to your I-Cue's.

Additionally, if you have DMX gateways, you a service tech can just reprogram any DMX inputs from those to be DMX outputs and vise versa.

Derek, for your reference, Sensor+ racks are already equipped with a pass-thru; it's just a matter of whether or not they are connected to a connector some place. Paradigm DRd racks are now equipped with two DMX ports, one of which is a dedicated output and the other can be assigned as an input or an output. Paradigm ER processors also have two ports, and either can be assigned as an input or an output. In almost all cases, having an output connector or receptacle near the rack is not useful for many applications, but regardless, it's an easy add by a service tech, near the rack or across the other end of the theatre so long as you're willing to run the wire.

ccm1495, Kirk is also looking into this and will be responding shortly or will PM you privately. He's in Tech Services and if he can figure out your job number or if you can find it, we can pull up the details here at ETC and see how everything is wired for your install. The people I spoke to in Dimming said they'd be very surprised if you didn't have a DMX output somewhere in your theatre. You may not know where it is, but you probably have one. If not, as I was mentioning earlier, it's not a difficult add.

EDIT: For clarification, the internal connectors I mentioned are not XLR 5-pin. They're places to land the conductors on the PCB's. So don't plan on punching out a knockout on your rack and plugging in your 5pin XLR DMX cable, because you won't find a place to plug it in.

 

[derekleffew]

My question was more along the lines of
"How many Codes, Listings, and Warranties would be violated if I were to drill a hole in the side of the rack and mount a D5F jack?"

 

[MNicolai]

While I defer that question to Kirk, I'm curious as to why you'd want to have a panel-mount connector on an install rack?

 

[starksk]

It is unfortunate that no installation dimmer racks are supplied with DMX out/thru connectors. [MENTION=5717]starksk[/MENTION], [MENTION=2720]STEVETERRY[/MENTION], or (other dimmer manufacturer representative), are there any issues with a Qualified Individual adding such a jack to an installed rack? Or running appropriate DMX cabling (in conduit if required) to a more convenient outlet on stage?
On the other hand, most racks are installed in dimmer rooms, where a data output would not be terribly beneficial.

Adding such a jack directly to the rack would not be advisable. Instead running a short bit of conduit to a wall plate and terminating either end of the connector will make both code and UL happier. (It is not UL listed to have a low-voltage connector directly installed in the side of the rack.)

The thing to remember here is that "Qualified Individual" will be defined for ETC racks as an ETC authorized technician. This is due to the need for additional configuration to enable the second DMX port as a DMX output. It is not advisable to have the DMX line daisy chain through the Sensor rack because of the tendency to forget the required DMX Termination at the end of the line.

As a side note, Sensor+ installation backplanes (where the CEM/CEM+ connects) do have a throughput header as Mike mentioned. Sensor Classic racks do not. The addition of the "thru" is to accomodate sites using Cat5 wiring for DMX as the Category 5 standard does not allow any termination to have more than one wire landed in the header.

ccm1495, I have sent you a PM.

 

[ccm1495]

The Rack dose have a blue indicator light. So i believe it is a sensor plus. The theater has two dmx plugs one back stage and one in the back of the theater there is no booth. There is also a small control panel back stage with preset buttons that control the lights. There are so DMX outputs all ready wired. The installation was done in an old and pre existing theater and the wire for the dmx plug in the back was just run up and over the plaster ceiling and down to a plug in the back.

Because the icues would be temporary i am now thinking we can just run separate dmx from the back of the theater to a dmx Hub or splitter on the side of the stage so i could plug one into the icues then the other into the dmx port on the side of the stage to control the dimmer rack.
In this situation i figure i would need one of those Enttec D-Split modules, because i don't think it would work with a y cable. The Enttec D-Split was one of the cheapest splitters i could find.
I also wonder if it is possible to use an adapter on the Enttec D-Split to make one of the 3 pin jacks into a 5 pin?

 

[derekleffew]

...because i don't think it would work with a y cable. ...

Correct. "Y" cables are not permitted in DMX distribution.

...I also wonder if it is possible to use an adapter on the Enttec D-Split to make one of the 3 pin jacks into a 5 pin?

Yes, of course. You just need an Adapter, 3-5. Here is the best price I've found. Or you could buy an A3M and an A5F and make your own with a short length of cable. Pins are wired 1-to-1. Use Pin#1 for the shield.

 

[Chris15]

Since this is for a temporary installation, I would suggest renting a splitter or whatever it is that's needed would be more cost effective than purchasing...

 

[ccm1495]

I was thinking about renting but then I saw the d split for $99 and since we will need it for almost a month then will use it again in the spring and then again the next year I figured we aut to just buy one and ad it to are Arsenal.