ETC Express 24/48 Help

[jarnone81]

I'm sure I'm going to sound like I don't know what I'm doing here, but I swear I am trying to figure this out and learn to do more with this lighting board. I also posted ETC's user forums, but they don't seem very busy.

I'm trying to figure out the ins and outs of an Express 24/48 lighting board that I have "inherited" as part of a TV Production classroom.

I guess first I will describe the setup of the lighting system, then explain the problem...

I have 48 lighting outlets. 4 rows of 10 on the ceiling, and 8 wall outlets.

The outlets are numbered:

Row 1: 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5
Row 2: 6 7 8 9 10 6 7 8 9 10
Row 3: 11 12 13 14 15 11 12 13 14 15
Row 4: 16 17 18 19 20 16 17 18 19 20

And on the walls there are two boxes numbered 21/22 and two numbered 23/24

What I've figured out by hooking up some lights, the system is wired so that number 20 on the board controls both number 20s on the ceiling.

There is an electric box near the light board that houses the ETC D20 dimmer modules. It is also only numbered 1-24. There is no other box (with 25-48).

Now here's the problem:

Quite a few of the dimmers(channels?) do not work. When I turn all of the lights up, fixtures that are plugged into about 16 of the switches are not receiving power. I also notice that in the electric box, the dimmer modules that correspond to the lights that are not working have status lights that are out, while the others have green status lights. I have swapped modules from a non-working slot to a working slot and the dimmer from the non-working slot worked fine in the new slot.

I'm sure it has something to do with settings on the lighting board. Can anyone give me some pointers for things to check in the express 24/48 configuration?

Thank you for any advice you may be able to offer!

 

[chausman]

If the dimmer modules don't have status lights, then that would be the problem, not the board. To me, it sounds like the modules themselves have problems. To start with the obvious, do the non-working modules have the front breakers on?

 

[jarnone81]

If the dimmer modules don't have status lights, then that would be the problem, not the board. To me, it sounds like the modules themselves have problems. To start with the obvious, do the non-working modules have the front breakers on?

Yes, all of the non working module breakers are on.

Like I said, when I swapped two modules, the problem did not follow with the moved module (lights still did not work with a supposedly "good" module).

One other thing I noticed is that the status lights dim with the master control on the board. So if the Master is all the way down, the status lights are off, and they get brighter as I raise the master.

I believe we checked the patches today, but could it be that the lights are not properly patched?

 

[derekleffew]

chausman, he has eliminated the possibility of the problem being in the dimmer modules by swapping modules such that a non-working module functions in a working slot. (Don't swap modules again without being aware of the dangers involved, and Lock-Out/Tag-Out/PPE required.) So it's either the slot output wiring or the control. Since the indicator lights on the module don't function, it's the control. Most likely the softpatch, but possibly in the channel to submaster/channel fader assignment.

jarnone81, do you have a copy of the manual for the Express 24/48.pdf?
See page 30 for instructions on how to do a dimmer check: [DIM] [1] [AT] [FULL] [ENTER]. [+]. [+]. (24 times). Press [CLEAR] when complete.

Then find the section on Patching Dimmers to Channels, and How to Restore the Console to Default (1-to-1) Settings.

...I believe we checked the patches today, but could it be that the lights are not properly patched?

That would be my first guess. Note that the Dimmer Check will work whether or not the dimmers/channels are patched correctly. So do that first.

...There is an electric box near the light board that houses the ETC D20 dimmer modules. It is also only numbered 1-24. ...

People who want to sound as if they know what they're doing call that "electric box" a Sensor SR12 dimmer rack.

 

[jarnone81]

chausman, he has eliminated the possibility of the problem being in the dimmer modules by swapping modules such that a non-working module functions in a working slot. (Don't swap modules again without being aware of the dangers involved, and Lock-Out/Tag-Out/PPE required.) So it's either the slot output wiring or the control. Since the indicator lights on the module don't function, it's the control. Most likely the softpatch, but possibly in the channel to submaster/channel fader assignment.

jarnone81, do you have a copy of the manual for the Express 24/48.pdf?
See page 30 for instructions on how to do a dimmer check: [DIM] [1] [AT] [FULL] [ENTER]. [+]. [+]. (24 times). Press [CLEAR] when complete.

Then find the section on Patching Dimmers to Channels, and How to Restore the Console to Default (1-to1) Settings.

Thanks! That sounds like something I can do .

I'll work on it tomorrow at school and report back.

Just out of curiosity, what are the dangers of swapping dimmer modules?

 

[jarnone81]

Since there seem to be some pretty knowledgeable people here, what do you think about the way the light outlets are wired?

What I mean is with there being two number 20s on the grid. Is that normal? At one point I had two floods (for the green screen) on number 20, a total of 4,000 watts, and it tripped the breaker*. One of my theater friends told me that shouldn't happen. Should there be a way to separately control the two number 20s? Or maybe not since I only have numbers up to 24 on the dimmer modules?

*If I can get all of the lights working, this won't be an issue as I wouldn't need to plug more than one thing into a single number.

 

[derekleffew]

...Just out of curiosity, what are the dangers of swapping dimmer modules?

I was hoping you would ask! See this post. Also, this thread: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/20144-overheating-dimmers.html .
----
Duplicating circuits is a common practice and reduces (sometimes) the need for two-fer s and extraneous cable. Each outlet (assuming it's a 20A 2P&G receptacle) can handle up to 20A (2400W) alone, but the total between the two cannot exceed that.

 

[jarnone81]

I was hoping you would ask! See this post, as well as the entire thread.
----
Duplicating circuits is a common practice and reduces (sometimes) the need for two-fer s and extraneous cable. Each outlet (assuming it's a 20A 2P&G receptacle) can handle up to 20A (2400W) alone, but the total between the two cannot exceed that.

They are 2P&G receptacles...reading the referenced thread now

 

[jarnone81]

Duplicating circuits is a common practice and reduces (sometimes) the need for two-fer s and extraneous cable. Each outlet (assuming it's a 20A 2P&G receptacle) can handle up to 20A (2400W) alone, but the total between the two cannot exceed that.

So I am inferring it is not possible to independently control each outlet. I can work with that - just need to strategically place lights...not a big deal for TV lighting. May even make it easier.

 

[josh88]

correct, you won't get individual control over different fixtures in those outlets. they will act as one unit. its just one wire in the wall with two outlets attached.

 

[jarnone81]

One more question as I work through this...

In system settings, what should (1) my number of dimmers be? and (2) what should my number of channels be?

Its currently set to (1) 1024 and (2) 48.

Thanks

 

[xander]

One more question as I work through this...

In system settings, what should (1) my number of dimmers be? and (2) what should my number of channels be?

Its currently set to (1) 1024 and (2) 48.

Thanks

That's fine the way it is. Those settings are just there so that if you aren't using the whole capacity of the board, you can save memory. If you wanted to, because you only have 24 dimmers and are using a 1-to-1 patch, technically you could make them both 24 and everything would be fine. The only problem with that is if you ever bring in a new piece of equipment (e.g. scroller, gobo rotator, more dimmers) you will probably forget that you need to change those settings and wonder why nothing works.

-Tim

 

[jarnone81]

Well here is where I stand as of now:

1. I've done a dimmer check. To be honest, I'm not especially sure what that was supposed to do. The outlets that are not working, continued to not work during the dimmer check.

2. I restored the console to default 1-1 settings, and still nothing.

3. I went so far as to do a full restore on the console, and again, no change.

4. I attempted to enable ETCLink to maybe see what is going on inside the dimmer rack, but I imagine I am not set up for that as it times out when trying to connect.

Any other thoughts on things to check?

Thanks!

 

[derekleffew]

... Those settings are just there so that if you aren't using the whole capacity of the board, you can save memory. ...

More than anything, it's aesthetics. Why have the console display dimmers/channels you don't have? In my view, the less non-pertinent information displayed, the better.

...

...
Along the same lines, I've never received a good answer to another question:
Say on an Express, if one changes the # of dimmers from the maximum of 1024, does anything happen to the DMX? Faster/slower? Does the console's processor run better with fewer dimmers and thus fewer calculations to make? I've always been pretty anal about setting to the exact number of dimmers I had, but does it really matter?

The reason you haven't received a great (possibly even good) answer to this question is that it depends on a number of factors. The major factor being which software version you are running. The next major factor is what speed you have selected in the output configuration.

For version 3.1, there is the possibility for a slight difference in the Break to Break timing when running in Max or Fast speed settings. When I say slight, I am talking 2-4 milliseconds maximum. The reason for that possibility lies in the fact that it is a software driven speed so interbyte and interpacket timings can vary slightly depending on what the software is doing.

In the Medium and Slow speed settings, there is no difference whatsoever in the output speed based on the number of dimmers defined in the setup page. This is related to the fact that the software has more time to process its internal functions.

In all speeds, the packet length stays at 512 bytes regardless of the number of dimmers defined on the setup screen.

As for whether the console will run better/faster with a smaller number of dimmers defined, while technically yes, the difference is so minute that the performance gain is insignificant and will not be noticeable by humans.

For more detailed information about DMX Speed and ETC consoles, please check out our wiki article.

... To be honest, I've never verified what DMX timings change when an Express has its number of outputs changed. Larry [one of the sw engineers] had told me a long time ago that it only sets some limitations in patch and displays without affecting anything in timing. I do know that no mater the settings, both output ports always send 513 bytes [counting the Start Code]. ...

 

[derekleffew]

Well here is where I stand as of now:

1. I've done a dimmer check. To be honest, I'm not especially sure what that was supposed to do. The outlets that are not working, continued to not work during the dimmer check.

2. I restored the console to default 1-1 settings, and still nothing.

3. I went so far as to do a full restore on the console, and again, no change.

4. I attempted to enable ETCLink to maybe see what is going on inside the dimmer rack, but I imagine I am not set up for that as it times out when trying to connect.

Any other thoughts on things to check?

Thanks!

1. Dimmer Check turns on one dimmer at a time and bypasses cues, subs, channels, and so forth. Did you happen to notice if the "signal" LEDs on the dimmer modules lit one at a time while you did the dimmer check?

4. If there's nothing plugged into the ETCLink port on the back of the console and/or you don't have D20-AF (Advanced Feature) dimmer modules, you needn't worry about ETCLink. Leave it disabled.

Are you sure you have a working instrument plugged into every dimmer? (In either of the two duplicated circuits, doesn't matter which one.)

Since it also may be something in the CEM (unlikely, but possible), I'd suggest called ETC Service at 1-800-688-4116, weekdays from 8a-5p CST, while you are near the console and dimmer rack. Several people who answer that phone are regulars here.

Let us know your progress. Now you've got us curious, and invested in your problem.

 

[jarnone81]

1. Dimmer Check turns on one dimmer at a time and bypasses cues, subs, channels, and so forth. Did you happen to notice if the "signal" LEDs on the dimmer modules lit one at a time while you did the dimmer check?

4. If there's nothing plugged into the ETCLink port on the back of the console and/or you don't have D20-AF (Advanced Feature) dimmer modules, you needn't worry about ETCLink. Leave it disabled.

Are you sure you have a working instrument plugged into every dimmer? (In either of the two duplicated circuits, doesn't matter which one.)

Since it also may be something in the CEM (unlikely, but possible), I'd suggest called ETC Service at 1-800-688-4116, weekdays from 8a-5p CST, while you are near the console and dimmer rack. Several people who answer that phone are regulars here.

Let us know your progress. Now you've got us curious, and invested in your problem.

I'm super glad I've got you interested and invested in my problem!

As for the dimmer check...I get it now. Thanks for re-explaining that. During the dimmer check, the status lights on the dimmer rack modules that "normally" work light up, the others do not.

I have a working fixture in 3 of the non working outlets, and a hand full of lights in the working ones. This problem is keeping me from finishing the job I set out to do.

Not sure if it's significant, but the working dimmers modules are the top 6 in the rack and the non-working modules are the bottom 6 in the rack.

 

[derekleffew]

...Not sure if it's significant, but the working dimmers modules are the top 6 in the rack and the non-working modules are the bottom 6 in the rack.

If you're saying that dimmers 1-12 work and dimmers 13-24 don't, yes, that is very significant.

In any case, give ETC a call. Right now.

 

[jarnone81]

Well, after about an hour on the phone, we determined that the control module at the bottom of the dimmer rack is having issues. At the moment I can't recall the name of that module. I'm getting a loaner unit tomorrow or Thursday and will be shipping the bad module in for repair. Crossing my fingers that this resolves the problem and does not get much more expensive!

Thanks for all the help here! I'll be back when we're fully resolved, and I'm sure with other lighting questions at some point!