Control/Dimming ETC Expression 2.x and 3.0 Replacing drive?

[sjp]

hey all,

was wondering if anyone else is (a) still using the expression 2.x and 3 consoles and (b) has anyone every looked into or has experience replacing the floppy drive with a USB floppy replacement drive (emulator)?

I still use these boards, obviously, and while it's not terribly efficient at times, they have not let me down. 3.5" floppies? yes, they've let me down numerous times. and without warning. and intermittently.

i know there's options out there for this after a short googling. wondering if anyone has recomendations?

 

[starksk]

hey all,

was wondering if anyone else is (a) still using the expression 2.x and 3 consoles and (b) has anyone every looked into or has experience replacing the floppy drive with a USB floppy replacement drive (emulator)?

I still use these boards, obviously, and while it's not terribly efficient at times, they have not let me down. 3.5" floppies? yes, they've let me down numerous times. and without warning. and intermittently.

i know there's options out there for this after a short googling. wondering if anyone has recomendations?

I would strongly recommend against trying this. The Expression CPU was designed at a time before USB was widely available and does not support that standard.

Unlike its more modern contemporaries (Eos/Ion/Element/Congo/Congo Jr.), Expression does not use a standard PC motherboard and processor. The CPU and other PCBs were designed and optimized for the express purpose of running the lighting control code.

As for whether anyone still uses them, yes there are several hundred still in active duty. We still support and repair them (and have stockpiled parts to be able to do so well into the future).

 

[derekleffew]

(a) still using the expression 2.x and 3 consoles and
(b) has anyone every looked into or has experience replacing the floppy drive with a USB floppy replacement drive (emulator)?

a) Yes, of course. I believe the number is somewhere between 1 and 9,000.

b) No, sadly. From this thread on the ETC Community Forum:

I've looked into this before, and the short answer is No.
The main processor interacts with the floppy disk drive in a very slow and unique way, which doesn't resemble any sort of modern protocol or storage standard. It is theoretically possible to emulate a floppy disk drive controller, and buffer the data into a modern data structure and media. But due to development cost and small scope, don't expect to see a such a product out of ETC.
I once saw a demonstration from a french hobbyist who built such a device for an old Apple computer, it used a SD card instead of the floppy drive. I don't think he was planning on creating an product out of it.
Let us know if you do find such a device though, I'd be happy to take a look at it!
Kevin McCann
Hardware Engineer
Electronic Theatre Controls

 

[SteveB]

hey all,

was wondering if anyone else is (a) still using the expression 2.x and 3 consoles and (b) has anyone every looked into or has experience replacing the floppy drive with a USB floppy replacement drive (emulator)?

I still use these boards, obviously, and while it's not terribly efficient at times, they have not let me down. 3.5" floppies? yes, they've let me down numerous times. and without warning. and intermittently.

i know there's options out there for this after a short googling. wondering if anyone has recomendations?

Fred Foster (ETC owner) was quoted recently as having ETC purchase a lot of replacement 3.5" disk drives to help alleviate the problems of drives failing on the 26,000 consoles sold. And I was curious about "numerous times" of 3.5 floppies failing as I rarely have (had) problems with disks.

SB

 

[sjp]

I would strongly recommend against trying this. The Expression CPU was designed at a time before USB was widely available and does not support that standard.

well there you have it. i shant be attempting it.
however, i will say that these products look terribly tempting:
ipcas GmbH - USB Floppy Emulator: use USB-Stick as floppy und replace 100 floppys with USB-Stick (FDD to UDD)
RIOC | SECS GEM | Robotics Equipment | Custom Software Development | Factory Automation

looks like they're aiming more at industrial computer controlled equipment... I'll not be risking my boards, but it'd be neat to test these....

And I was curious about "numerous times" of 3.5 floppies failing as I rarely have (had) problems with disks.

Apart from floppies in general not having super great longevity and iffy environmental and em tolerance, i work in a summer venue with sometimes questionable climate control in storage areas.... but even way back when they were the cat's meow, i'd say i've had a 1.5 or 2 in 10 failure rate on a very long average.... I think it just feels higher for me, cuz last few times, it's been a mission critical failure, (for the disk, not the drive).

a) Yes, of course. The number is somewhere between 1 and 9,000.

ha! good to know there's at least 2-8999 other people out there... lol

 

[derekleffew]

Fred Foster (ETC owner) was quoted recently as having ETC purchase a lot of replacement 3.5" disk drives to help alleviate the problems of drives failing on the 26,000 consoles sold. ...

Plus Obsessions I&II and other non-Express(ion)-family consoles.

But I thought the quote referred to pallets of media (disks) and not drives?

I have floppies fail all the time, and always have. Most likely because I re-use them until they will not longer format. But I always record at least two, every time.

 

[SteveB]

But I thought the quote referred to pallets of media (disks) and not drives?

\

Yup, I went back and listened again, this time with headphones on and he was indeed referring to floppies, which is why I do lighting, not audio as I can't hear for .......

So if your disk fails on your Insight or Express/ion, TIME to buy an Ion !. Any excuse....

SB

 

[derekleffew]

Discussion on the SML has suggested this rather pricey (€ 249,00) German device (as also proposed above):

ipcas GmbH - USB Floppy Emulator: use USB-Stick as floppy und replace 100 floppys with USB-Stick (FDD to UDD)

No testimonial from someone who has actually proven the device to work in an Express/ion, however.

I think ETC, or sjp, should buy one, try it, and let us know whether or not it works. At ~90¢/floppy, would pay for itself in only 5-10 years.

 

[techno89]

USB port on ETC Express? Wasn't there a project....

My school's theatre tech director want to use a usb flash drive as a backup for shows instead of a floppy disk. I though I saw a project that accomplished installing a USB port where the floppy disk drive was with a convertor i believe. Can anyone help me find this project please? Or suggest something?

Thanks,
Scott

Also please don't say backup to floppy, send to computer, computer to flash drive, (thank you!)

 

[Plataiskalns]

Also i had the same problem, but got this one emulator from aliexpress, installed, and it works perfectly on expression 3:

http://m.aliexpress.com/item/167958...stype=600&tracelog=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail

 

[microstar]

The school I used to work at replaced the floppy drive on their Express 48/96 with an emulator several years ago and the console continued to work great until replaced with an Ion.

 

[Thetechmanmac]

I have put an emulator on 2 expression 3's and they work great!

 

[LavaASU]

At least at one point there was someone on ebay selling a foppy emulator specifically for the etc express(ion) consoles. I think it was about $200 though if I remember right.

 

[microstar]

This one is marketed as a replacement, but a little pricey compared to a lot of the others:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-for-ETC...hash=item35ce07c9d1:m:m-WmW3mI6USmQ0kToTBZzxg