Conventional Fixtures ETC goes BakPak !

[MNicolai]

That math doesn't really apply here, even if it did it would be more expensive than 1/4 of the price when you add in the cost of the full case, and the dmx ports. Since this is a different dimming technology though, it doesn't make sense to compare prices like that.

The math applies if you're the person making purchasing decisions between one option and another.

 

[Footer]

The only other issue I have with this plan is your adding more weight to the pipe. You still have to have the same amount of copper to power the unit, now you are adding 6# more per unit plus data cable. On a typical lineset that has 30 fixtures, your adding 200#. The audio world is now backpeddeling from active boxes in favor of passive boxes with matched amps. That decision is mostly due to weight and trouble shooting. I would hate to be in the theatre that this was the only dimming solution. I spend way to much of my time fixing the 40 meyer boxes I have because the fragile components are in the air.

Now, if this is a stop gap to get some tungsten fixtures into an LED rig, it would work for that. I just pity the place that gets no installed dimming and one of these attached to every fixture.

 

[JChenault]

I'm having trouble getting multiple quotes to work. so I have done a bit of pasting.

dimmer" room? This follows ST's long-held theory of dimmer economics: [/quote] "A dimmer rack is a distribution panel with some free dimmers".And it's just that" data-source="high-SCCR dimmer racks: 0" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

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Well, no. You've got me there. Me, being the typical and theoretical ideal dimmer user.pdf , for my average production:
17% of the dimmers have no load at all, and go unused
29% have a load of 575W or less,
37% have a load of 576-1500W
17% have a load greater than 1501W

So my average 96 rack runs ~148 575W fixtures.

I think what Steve's analysis is missing is the cost in terms of labor and copper in installing a whole load of 20 amp circuits which you don't need with distributed dimmers.


So lets compare the work required simply in terms of copper and installation for a 96 dimmer rack -vs- these BakPak dimmers. ( this is a quick back of the [autolink]envelope[/autolink] calculation only ) I am using your [autolink]dimmer[/autolink] loading numbers.

For the 96 rack I will need 96 runs of 12/2 cable for a total of 192 wires ( plus [autolink]ground[/autolink]. I am assuming we do not run a separate [autolink]ground[/autolink] [autolink]wire[/autolink])

If I assume 148 5 amp fixtures, that means I have 740 amps or 37 - 20 amp circuits at 100% [autolink]rating[/autolink]. At 80% [autolink]rating[/autolink] I will need 46 or so circuits. Now it is [autolink]clear[/autolink] that for locational convenience ( IE I want outlets where I want them ) I will need some more - so let's add 20% for that and I get to about 55 circuits. 55 circuits gets me to 110 wires.

So I assert that the labor / installation costs would be about 60% of a [autolink]conventional[/autolink] installation.

 

[STEVETERRY]

I'm having trouble getting multiple quotes to work. so I have done a bit of pasting.



I think what Steve's analysis is missing is the cost in terms of labor and copper in installing a whole load of 20 amp circuits which you don't need with distributed dimmers.



So lets compare the work required simply in terms of copper and installation for a 96 dimmer rack -vs- these BakPak dimmers. ( this is a quick back of the envelope calculation only ) I am using your dimmer loading numbers.

For the 96 rack I will need 96 runs of 12/4 cable for a total of 192 wires ( plus ground. I am assuming we do not run a separate ground wire)

If I assume 148 5 amp fixtures, that means I have 740 amps or 37 - 20 amp circuits at 100% rating. At 80% rating I will need 46 or so circuits. Now it is clear that for locational convenience ( IE I want outlets where I want them ) I will need some more - so let's add 20% for that and I get to about 55 circuits. 55 circuits gets me to 110 wires.

So I assert that the labor / installation costs would be about 60% of a conventional installation.

You mean 12/2 runs not 12/4, right? And dont forget the additional cost of the data wiring for a system that potentially needs data to every light.

And, the loading of constant power circuits that will also need to feed LED fixtures with highly capacitive inputs and high inrush current means that you don't get as many fixtures on a circuit as one might think!

Yet another topic that is planned for my October 19 and 20 talks at LDI.

ST

 

[JChenault]

You mean 12/2 runs not 12/4, right? And dont forget the additional cost of the data wiring for a system that potentially needs data to every light.

And, the loading of constant power circuits that will also need to feed LED fixtures with highly capacitive inputs and high inrush current means that you don't get as many fixtures on a circuit as one might think!

Yet another topic that is planned for my October 19 and 20 talks at LDI.

ST

I do mean 12/2. Thanks for the catch. I will edit

I'm looking forward to the LDI talk

 

[porkchop]

And despite the fact that distributed dimmers have become reliable, the market has been slow to adopt them en masse. Perhaps we will have to wait for the arrival of two new advances to finally and fairly evaluate distributed dimming: dimmer in the fixture, to completely avoid a separate dimming device, and the advent of cheap, reliable wireless data transmission technology, to get rid of all those pesky data cables! Both these advances should be just around the corner.

Distributed dimming has never really excited me much, but now that you bring up wireless DMX I'm kinda loving the idea of having one of these with some kind of AC powered W-DMX pack piggybacked onto it. It would make a full system more expensive, but very flexible.

 

[JChenault]

Yet another topic that is planned for my October 19 and 20 talks at LDI.

ST

Steve
Just to make sure. Are you presenting the same talk twice or two different talks?

 

[STEVETERRY]

Steve
Just to make sure. Are you presenting the same talk twice or two different talks?

It's the same talk twice.

ST

 

[Ric]

So this is basically a little shoebox dimmer mounted to each fixture? What's the advantage of doing this?

I'd be expecting they're future planning for the very near time when large dimmer racks are made obsolete by the prevalence of LED/Intelligent fixtures.
As all fixtures will require power & dmx, the cabling infrastucture for that would already be in place.
The odd orphan lamp that is actually power dimmed would make sense to have a dedicated individual dimmer near to it, using the existing cabling.

 

[STEVETERRY]

I'd be expecting they're future planning for the very near time when large dimmer racks are made obsolete by the prevalence of LED/Intelligent fixtures.
As all fixtures will require power & dmx, the cabling infrastucture for that would already be in place.
The odd orphan lamp that is actually power dimmed would make sense to have a dedicated individual dimmer near to it, using the existing cabling.

Yes, precisely.

ST

 

[derekleffew]

Posts discussing cyc light s have been moved to their own thread: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/29935-assymetric-led-cyc-lights.html .