Extra attached modules and outlets with no control on board.

[Sharkey]

The title mostly explains the problem.

We have a -bunch- of outlets we need to be able to dim on our stage setup ( a couple backstage and a few on the front of the stage to be used for specials near thrusts )

They all have numbers on them written in none other than sharpie... we went to our Strand dimmers and flipped the breaker on the correct dimmer/module number. The power turned off.
We need to be able to control these, through our strand preset pallete board. The weird thing is, the power is always on to these outlets. Some of them are "constant" dimmers (Which is I'm guessing non-dim) and some are basic (dimming?) I checked the ETC web control panel, and I've added a circuit for that module in the circuit setups as 00148 (Assuming I could them control it with patch 1.148 on my board) This didn't work.

I am not familiar with this lingo, and how this all works beyond patching them to pre-setup circuits on the board and running wires.
I would really love to shed some light on this topic, as we have a show in a week and I would -love- for these specials to be installed and working (Not a huge biggie if we can't get them to work)
Sadly, nobody knows in our school how this was all setup, and we can't get a professional out.

Thanks in advanced, and I know this is asking a lot.
-Spencer

 

[icewolf08]

Can you tell us more about your system? It sounds like you have ETC dimmers and a Strand console, is that true? On the circuits in question, when you co back to the dimmer rack, what are the module types that these circuits run to (D-20, CC-20, R-20, etc.)? How is the console connected to the dimmers (network or DMX)? The more information you can give us on your system and what you have done, the more we can help you.

 

[metti]

The title mostly explains the problem.

We have a -bunch- of outlets we need to be able to dim on our stage setup ( a couple backstage and a few on the front of the stage to be used for specials near thrusts )

They all have numbers on them written in none other than sharpie... we went to our Strand dimmers and flipped the breaker on the correct dimmer/module number. The power turned off.
We need to be able to control these, through our strand preset pallete board. The weird thing is, the power is always on to these outlets. Some of them are "constant" dimmers (Which is I'm guessing non-dim) and some are basic (dimming?) I checked the ETC web control panel, and I've added a circuit for that module in the circuit setups as 00148 (Assuming I could them control it with patch 1.148 on my board) This didn't work.

I am not familiar with this lingo, and how this all works beyond patching them to pre-setup circuits on the board and running wires.
I would really love to shed some light on this topic, as we have a show in a week and I would -love- for these specials to be installed and working (Not a huge biggie if we can't get them to work)
Sadly, nobody knows in our school how this was all setup, and we can't get a professional out.

Thanks in advanced, and I know this is asking a lot.
-Spencer

What type of connector does your venue use on your regular dimmed circuits and what type of connector do these have?

 

[Sharkey]

C21 Advanced Technology Dimmer System | Strand Lighting - A Philips Group Brand
We have the C21 dimmer with two different kinds of modules (I don't have a specific page...) One module says Basic on it, and can control two circuits. Another says constant on it, and by pulling it out and taking a look, it doesn't appear to have any dimming mechanisms. We know that the module that goes to the outlet we want to control has a module, as we can turn it off through the breaker on the module. It is a constant module, so that means no dimming.

Our setup consists of 3 shownet nodes (The little blue boxes I have no idea how to configure via IP if I can't find it), two C12 Dimmer racks, filled with Basic and about 8 constant modules. Each module supports two circuits. We have a Strand Preset Palette console, all connected through ShowNet. We also have a vision.net system with two touch panels... but I don't think that has anything to do with our problem.

I think that's all the information you need, I can get more specifics tomorrow when I'm at the theater before school, if you request any.

I know I Can configure the racks and their circuits, patches, and dimmers through the webGUI.

The strange part is, these outlets are always on, even if our board is powered off. How is this possible?

Once again, I apologize for my lack of knowledge, I'm just learning and have taken the step to post here.

Edit:
Sorry, I Did not read the rest of your post.
It appears that the dimming outlets use standard stage outlets (The 3-prong circle type (I honestly have no idea of it's technical term)) and it looks like the "Constants" are our outlets on the bottom of our stage. Those are conventional standard wall-outlets you'd find anywhere and everywhere.

 

[derekleffew]

If properly trained on how to remove/replace modules,
Try this:
Find a pair of circuits not in use and put that "Basic" module in place of the "Constant" module where the desired circuits are currently. That may be all you need to do to achieve dimming control. No configuring of the rack may be necessary.

...The strange part is, these outlets are always on, even if our board is powered off. How is this possible? ...

Easy. As you've found, the constant module is just an empty shell with two circuit breakers on it. It passes power direct from the bus bars in the back of the rack to the circuits. It doesn't care, and doesn't listen to, what any control may be telling it what to do. Circuits controlled by this module will be "always ON" unless a) the breakers are turned off, or b) main power to the dimmer rack is de-energized.

...It appears that the dimming outlets use standard stage outlets (The 3-prong circle type (I honestly have no idea of it's technical term)) ...

Most likely L5-20 receptacle s, colloquially, 20 amp Twist-Lock.

...and it looks like the "Constants" are our outlets on the bottom of our stage. Those are conventional standard wall-outlets you'd find anywhere and everywhere.

Duplex Edison (NEMA 5-15) outlets.

 

[icewolf08]

I have never worked with the C21 Racks, but Derek's idea is sound. The C21 rack is a modular system, so you can move modules around. So, if you know that there is a pair of circuits that you are not using, you should be bale to move swap one of your constant modules with a standard module. YOu may have to go into the web configuration and tell the rack that the slot now has a basic module in it, however, you don't have to tell it that you put a constant module in someplace, it really doesn't care. So, in theory, if you swapped a "Basic" module in to where you had a "Constant" module the circuits should now be dimmable. Odds are the address of the new dimmer is the circuit number. So, if the circuit was 48, then if you patched output 48 (1.48) to a channel, you should be able to control it.

While there are many things that you can change via the web interface for the dimmers, you probably shouldn't play with most of them. Really it is probably best to only change the type of module that is in a given slot and the firing mode of the module. Most of the other settings are probably best left alone. You should make sure that the DMX address of each dimmer matches the circuit that it is connected to and leave it at that.

Beyond that, you are correct, the constant module does not have the electronics for dimming, it is exactly what it sounds like, a constant-on module. Useful for things like work lights, fog machines, follow spots, or anything that needs constant, non-dimmed power.

 

[Sharkey]

Okay, thank you everyone for your help.
I will try the module swap as I know we have unused circuits!

Then (if it still doesn't work), I will check to make sure the circuit is patched into it properly on the configuration, if not I'll set that module to the correct 00148 circuit.

I'm going to school in 20 minutes, and I'll take a look at this when I get in.

Thank you so much for your help, it really stinks having being one out of two light techs at the plays, especially when we have the setup that we have at our school (4 Electrics on BB's, full channel rail electrics, 20 circuit catwalk electrics)

Wish me luck!
-Spencer

 

[phenry]

Wish me luck!
-Spencer

Good luck Spencer.
I have worked with the C21 before, so I can say that yes, your problem sound like it is just module type. Constant modules are just that, constant on. Following the basic safety guidelines, you can replace it with a basic dimmer module to gain control of the circuit. A few things to look at however: First, is why it is a constant in the first place? Make sure that module is not also powering something else like the battery chargers on emergency lights or other equipment. Sometimes if an electrical contractor runs emergency lighting to the rack instead of to a breaker panel, a constant module is put in to meet code. Second, is there anything else these outlets will be used for? We had a site that had some of the boot outlets on a dimmer and would turn on with vision net stations. When the cleaners came in and hit their cleaning preset, it would not turn the dimmers to full. It took them I think half a dozen vacuums to figure out what was happening. Let me know if you have any trouble or questions.

 

[Sharkey]

The switching of the modules worked great. Turns out we had a bunch of un-used basic dimming modules in non-used module sockets. All the constants we have either powered outlets around the stage or outlets on the stage floor, so no worries to cleanup crew (Even though, school Janitors don't put in much effort -anyways-)

The lighting turned out great!
Thank you everyone for your help, you guys always seem to have the best of answers.e