Fatal Orchestra Pit Fall
- Thread starterMPowers
- Start date
MPowers
Well-Known Member
Bill,
What's your take on pit nets such as manufactured by Incord? I've installed a few of them, but have never heard of any incidents or such afterwards to make any kind of judgment.
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Not confirmed but apparently Incord does not warrant them with people under, only when pit is empty. They do sag a lot - like 40" in a typical pit by their own testing. Plus they don't help much for setting up a pit filler. Compare a pit filler with normal support sustem and a net in cost to a twg and just the panels with stub legs - cost is not all that different. Come up with a better filler panel - solid and no rattle - supported on twg, and you'd be close to even - and the twg is very nice. On a pit with lift - I guess I'd go with Incord now.
The changes coming to Life Safety Code and other regulatory action will draw attention to this issue.
The changes coming to Life Safety Code and other regulatory action will draw attention to this issue.
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't all them thin - so far stage right honeycomb decks - but seems like it solves a number of problems safely. I know one group use bar grate which is fine acoustically but vision sucks and musicians feel like they are in a dungeon.
I'd like to find a lighter deck but not sure that one which is lighter will sound ok with performers walking on it.
I'd like to find a lighter deck but not sure that one which is lighter will sound ok with performers walking on it.
Inclusion in codes and regulatory action is what it may take as otherwise this is the type of thing that might too often be "Value Engineered" out of projects by those nut fully understanding or recognizing the potential implications.
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
The code change does not require a twg or net necessarily , but requires: "Where a guard is ordinarily required but not provided in accordance with 12.2.11.1.6 exceptions (1) and (2), a written plan shall be developed and maintained to mitigate the fall hazards of unguarded raised floor areas and vertical openings on stages." Of course OSHA already requires the same of employers who have employees on stage, but OSHA enforcement is not very proactive. No one will review and tell you in advance that your plan meets the requirement; and authorities will for a building or fire code; and of course this would apply to employees and non-employees alike.
Bill, there was a related issue brought to my attention the other day. In order to remove or install our pit cover, we must remove the net. A construction worker passed by and mentions that "according to OSHA they must have some sort of fall arrest system when working with an elevation difference of over 6 feet." Is this the case or is there some sort of OSHA exception for employees working on a stage.
Based on your last post, it seems as though we may only need to have "a written plan shall be developed and maintained to mitigate the fall hazards of unguarded raised floor areas and vertical openings on stages."
Would this be the case in my situation?
Based on your last post, it seems as though we may only need to have "a written plan shall be developed and maintained to mitigate the fall hazards of unguarded raised floor areas and vertical openings on stages."
Would this be the case in my situation?
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KacyC
Member
You are not exempt from complying with OSHA because you work in theatre. The methodolgy you use to eliminate or mitigate a hazard though, may be different from what would be done in, say, a construction site or a factory. But, you still are responsible for keeping people safe.
The proposed Life Safety language gets at this idea - that there's not a single, catchall solution that will work for everyone, but that people should consider how they will address the hazard. (And, with a written plan, have evidence of what they will do.)
The proposed Life Safety language gets at this idea - that there's not a single, catchall solution that will work for everyone, but that people should consider how they will address the hazard. (And, with a written plan, have evidence of what they will do.)
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BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
I've played with idea of removing a pit filler all from below but ultimately, I think that it usually does end up with people "at the precipice" and I would concur that OSHA would require they be protected. Interestingly, while on a project recently (with a tensioned wire grid over pit) the crew leader told or a tech who had fallen into a pit and been injured in the process of installing it.
I very purposefully kept the new code language simple. If you've never been swimming, don't dive from the high board first time. Stick your toe in the shallow end. With codes and standards I think it best to start small. Thinking that anyone can start at nothing and develop regulation for all circumstances and conditions and eventualities all at once is sure to fail.
There is an annex note - advisory material - that adds: The written plan should identify the unguarded areas and should include precautions and
provisions to mitigate the fall hazard. Such precautions and provisions may include:
Training
Choreography
Rehearsal
Restricted access to the stage
Restricted access to unguarded edges
Warning lights
Audible warnings
Tactile edges
Warning barriers
Signage
Temporary barriers
Personal fall protection
Fall restraint
Spotters
I'm not an OSHA expert but I'm pretty sure it doesn't exempt theatre or art from the responsibility of the employer to provide a safe working environment for their employees.
I very purposefully kept the new code language simple. If you've never been swimming, don't dive from the high board first time. Stick your toe in the shallow end. With codes and standards I think it best to start small. Thinking that anyone can start at nothing and develop regulation for all circumstances and conditions and eventualities all at once is sure to fail.
There is an annex note - advisory material - that adds: The written plan should identify the unguarded areas and should include precautions and
provisions to mitigate the fall hazard. Such precautions and provisions may include:
Training
Choreography
Rehearsal
Restricted access to the stage
Restricted access to unguarded edges
Warning lights
Audible warnings
Tactile edges
Warning barriers
Signage
Temporary barriers
Personal fall protection
Fall restraint
Spotters
I'm not an OSHA expert but I'm pretty sure it doesn't exempt theatre or art from the responsibility of the employer to provide a safe working environment for their employees.
kiwitechgirl
Well-Known Member
Our pit net is in at all times unless the pit lift comes up to form the apron or half-depth pit. If it's coming up for the apron, there is a period of time when the net is removed before the lift comes up but usually temporary barriers are put in place across the front of the stage. If the lift is coming up for a half-depth pit (we do this sometimes if it's a small orchestra) the lift comes up then the net is removed - easier to do with the lift up anyway. We're actually about to get a new net which will hold a person well enough that they won't land on an orchestra member if the pit is occupied when they fall in - current one won't quite do that!
StNic54
Active Member
On a personal note, I took a fall into a pit at my undergrad, and it was one of the scariest and luckiest moments in my life. We had two bridges going over the pit for a show, and while we were working on stage, I was looking up at a guy working on a pipe at trim, and for some reason my coworker and I both had to back up on stage to give some room. I wound up backing up onto the bridge without knowing it, and then in the process took a step to the side, which immediately put me off the bridge. I landed on a concrete set of steps in a sitting position, and wound up with cracked ribs and a bruised lung. I couldn't breathe for a bit after it happened, but when I caught my breath I knew immediately how lucky I was to have walked away from it on my feet. We had removed the hard pit cover for the show, and did not have a rope going across the front, much less a net in place. I believe that all CB members (especially the young readers) should take this thread pretty seriously and know that safety is paramount in what we do.
To clarify, I am not looking for an exemption, I am simply trying to figure out what I need to do to provide a safe working environment.
The pit is only without a net for the 3 hour window that it takes to install and uninstall the cover and the four of us working on it are the only ones allowed in the stage area. So I think we do a good job of controlling access to the space. My main concern is with the two of us 'at the precipice. To install the pieces we lined them up, and then, while kneeling, slid the pieces out one by one. I believe that this process limited the risk of anyone falling, however is that enough? Some people are saying that we should have harnesses, to which I say, what should we use as an anchor point. Others have suggested that I build a 4 foot platform to put in the pit that we can move around as we work so that the fall would only be four feet. I just want to be sure that I am doing the right thing before we take the cover off again next year.
I would love to hear any suggestions from you all! Thanks!
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Is this a support from the pit floor pit filler (as opposed to sitting on a shelf angle around the opening), thus preventing a temporary net install at a lower level?
I'm sure there are harness solutions, like a cable reel from overhead, but not easy and I always wonder if they might cause you to misstep.
A platform is a great - if expensive and cumbersome - solution.
I have to wonder if a fifth person who spots and watches for potential problems might not be the best solution, couples with pre-planning to be sure you all have discussed and shared the issue.
Best answer - retrofit a lift and keep people away form opening when lift is not at stage level and the net is not installed. Sorry.
I'm sure there are harness solutions, like a cable reel from overhead, but not easy and I always wonder if they might cause you to misstep.
A platform is a great - if expensive and cumbersome - solution.
I have to wonder if a fifth person who spots and watches for potential problems might not be the best solution, couples with pre-planning to be sure you all have discussed and shared the issue.
Best answer - retrofit a lift and keep people away form opening when lift is not at stage level and the net is not installed. Sorry.
Unfortunately it is supported from the pit floor (I have no Idea why they would choose this route on a new build) which is why we can't have the net up while we take it down and put it back up. I know its a sticky issue, just trying to come up with the best solution. I would love to know how other venues deal with the situation.
