Fixtures on Electrics

[Jon Majors]

I have a stage that is 52' wide and 38" feet deep, 4 total electrics and the 1st is dead hung. I have a variety of ERS barrel options, and Altman Par 56s. Given this information, how many fixtures would you place per electric batten? I know it's a broad question, but I want to get a sense for how other theatres use their electrics, on a day by day basis. Do you use 50 deg. barrels on ERS? How many would you use on a standard plot? Do you focus straight down, or angle some for high sides? Looking forward to hearing how others plot their electrics!

 

[Amiers]

Divide what you have by four and hang them accordingly. No you don’t use ERS for down lights get yourself some fresnels.

 

[JonCarter]

I have a stage that is 52' wide and 38" feet deep, 4 total electrics

J
All due respect to Amiers, but Jon, what is your position? Purchasing agent? TD? LD? Or ?? Are your dimensions prosc. opening x acting area depth? Overall stage dimensions? And how about acting area and overall height? How about FOH positions, both top & sides? Are you planning a rep lot to cover anything that occurs in this space? Are you an L.D. designing "Aida"? "Death of a Salesman"? Or Rock concerts? MUCH more info about the plant, what you want to do in it, your/the organization's budget and yourself would help!

 

[RickR]

Lighting 101 homework assignment; A modified McCandless wash with 10' pools gives a 5 x 3-4 grid of areas, 3 fixtures per area, per color. 2 front 45s, 1 straight back/down. Add more for specials, set lights, whatever.

1001 variations, if a venue even uses a rep plot of any kind.

 

[StradivariusBone]

Yeah there's a lot of territory in that one post. I'll take a stab at what stuck out to me. 50 degree lekos are nice to use to wash a cyc from a DS electric with a GOBO. Par 56 could be used for downlight, but keep in mind Par lamps are an endangered species. I'd be planning to replace downlight with something that can get a soft and blendable edge.

The rest is what you want from front and sides. The stage I work on is slightly smaller, but we divide it into 5 zones wide by 3 rows deep and two zones on our apron. I've found that layering sidelight on pipe ends works pretty well, our current rep uses a leko with two fresnels, the leko being there to make it easy to drop in a breakup GOBO as needed. But those are pretty much the only lekos I've got on stage, the bulk of them are on our bridges for front systems.

A lot depends on usage of the space (echoing what has been said). We oscillate from dance rentals, to concerts, to meetings, to our own in-house productions so we keep a fairly versatile rep plot in the air except for when we have the time to take it apart and play with it.

 

[Jon Majors]

J
All due respect to Amiers, but Jon, what is your position? Purchasing agent? TD? LD? Or ?? Are your dimensions prosc. opening x acting area depth? Overall stage dimensions? And how about acting area and overall height? How about FOH positions, both top & sides? Are you planning a rep lot to cover anything that occurs in this space? Are you an L.D. designing "Aida"? "Death of a Salesman"? Or Rock concerts? MUCH more info about the plant, what you want to do in it, your/the organization's budget and yourself would help!

I didn't want to get into exactly what I do, or what the space is for, but what exactly is the "standard" if there is one. Basically, what does your downlight plot look like, knowing that I have 4 electrics and those stage dimensions. I know show-by-show will change.

 

[josh88]

Divide what you have by four and hang them accordingly. No you don’t use ERS for down lights get yourself some fresnels.

Real question (not just to you, but everybody) do you regularly encounter fresnels? Not considering LED's, I'd say for the last decade probably 90% of downlighting/washes I've encountered are S4 pars. The remaining 10% are other pars or the occasional fresnel. It always seems that most venues prefer the oblong pool and shared lamp. I don't think I've had a plot or tour with one in 5 years and when I do see them, they're 30 years old.

 

[Amiers]

I’ve seen a mix. But yes mostly pars or led pars in your standard rep plot. I only mentioned it because he listed Altman’s.

 

[cbrandt]

When we do retrofits and refurbishments, we do still see a fair amount of fresnels out there. But the vast majority are pars these days, with the occasional borderlight still in operation.

Par 56 could be used for downlight, but keep in mind Par lamps are an endangered species.

And I think this is going to be/is a greater problem with the 56 than the 64. Assuming you have the dimmers to power everything, start with the McCandless wash @RickR recommended, and then add more until you're comfortable, somewhere between 50% and double.

 

[RickR]

"Standards" are antithetical to "Art"

In 99% of our industry(s) the use and purpose far out weigh any need for conformity. Yet practicality and costs also dominate our work, forcing us to be adaptable and creative.

 

[blueeyesdesigns]

"Standard" really depends on how you use the space. My "standard" plot is very different for my venue that's used for theater and dance and my venue that's primarily used as a lecture hall. If I had to list go-to systems I would want in my tool kit, it would be at least 2 full washes of top light (preferably three, and/or one mixable LED) using soft-edge figures like PARs or fresnels, and at least one (preferably two) high-side/pipe-end system from each side using ERSs. I like to group my high-sides toward the end of the batten, and do a near, mid, and far shot with descending degrees TBD based on throw distance. If I've got extra fixtures, I'll distribute a few on each batten to use as specials for when the client walks in and says something like: "... and in this moment I want...."

 

[EmilBarnabas]

In the space in which I work the most they have a 60-foot wide proscenium opening. They have 1st and 3rd electrics (wish there was a 2nd electric). The 1st electric is about 16) 36-degree ERS focused upstage, and the 3rd electric is about 16) 50-degree ERS with half providing a little back light and the others focused a little upstage. The 50-degrees focused upstage are shuttered to cut the edge of the light as it meets the cyc, which is about 32 feet from the main curtain.

Yes, fresnels could be a better down light and back light, but you have to work with what you got, and most of these instruments are old ones that I have donated to the space.

 

[Jon Majors]

In the space in which I work the most they have a 60-foot wide proscenium opening. They have 1st and 3rd electrics (wish there was a 2nd electric). The 1st electric is about 16) 36-degree ERS focused upstage, and the 3rd electric is about 16) 50-degree ERS with half providing a little back light and the others focused a little upstage. The 50-degrees focused upstage are shuttered to cut the edge of the light as it meets the cyc, which is about 32 feet from the main curtain.

Yes, fresnels could be a better down light and back light, but you have to work with what you got, and most of these instruments are old ones that I have donated to the space.

So essentialy you have 16 ERS focused downstage for a wash? The ones are 1st electric are providing front light for people standing upstage?

 

[Naomi S. Gold]

Real question (not just to you, but everybody) do you regularly encounter fresnels? Not considering LED's, I'd say for the last decade probably 90% of downlighting/washes I've encountered are S4 pars. The remaining 10% are other pars or the occasional fresnel. It always seems that most venues prefer the oblong pool and shared lamp. I don't think I've had a plot or tour with one in 5 years and when I do see them, they're 30 years old.

Most, if not all of the places I have worked tend to have a mix of S4 PARs and Fresnels. How ever, the Fresnels tend to be the older instruments that are used last or for a very specific reason. As a designer, I tend to prefer to use a S4 PAR because of the oblong shape. However, I definitely have used a system of Fresnels as top pools.

 

[microstar]

Most, if not all of the places I have worked tend to have a mix of S4 PARs and Fresnels. How ever, the Fresnels tend to be the older instruments that are used last or for a very specific reason. As a designer, I tend to prefer to use a S4 PAR because of the oblong shape. However, I definitely have used a system of Fresnels as top pools.

And then there are the old Kliegl fresnels that did have an oval beam spread! I always thought that was one of the greatest fresnels ever made.

 

[Sean]

I didn't want to get into exactly what I do, or what the space is for, but what exactly is the "standard" if there is one. Basically, what does your downlight plot look like, knowing that I have 4 electrics and those stage dimensions. I know show-by-show will change.

There is absolutely no "standard"....please keep in mind your parameters given are so incredibly vague as to be almost useless to getting the real answers you want. Is this a plot for a school that doesn't typically change (my presumption from how you asked the question)? Does the physical size of the stage change in anyway: Do you have adjustable soft goods? Do your electrics change trim? Do you actually refocus between projects? Just school concerts with an occasional play or annual musical production? The size of the lens tube will be predicated on the throw distance (from light to performer), and by the size of your lighting areas.
I work in a regional theatre. With the exception of what we put up to light summer camp each year, and the very occasional remount of an older show, in 21+ years and easily more than 200 productions we've not hung the same plot twice.