"Flying Set Pieces"

[StageManagerAW]

Hey Guys! First Time poster. I'm a High School SM and have a quick (or maybe not so quick) question. This spring, we are doing Hairspray and we are looking for ways to "fly" signage (Corny Collins sign, Motormouth Record Shop signs and records, Mr. Pinky's sign ,(cans of ultra clutch),etc... The big problem is, we have no fly system! Currently, we are planning or having rotating flats for the shop interior/exteriors, and have panels (attempting to add pictures of set markup) that we be affixed to a track hung from the ceiling and screwed into the floor. The only thing we are still stuck on is how to make these things fly?!? Any suggestions are welcome!

Can you see this image?v
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Thanks!

 

[RickR]

Welcome to Control Booth and good for you for asking for help! It may seem obvious to you, but it isn't so obvious to others.
(I see a picture but it might be a bit jumbled. Was it supposed to be several files?)

I have 2 general bits of advice for you. First is to KNOW what you are doing. Putting things over peoples heads (like yours?) is not a time for guessing, estimating and trying out stuff from the net. Engineering and common sense are rare in high schools and are both needed for doing dangerous stuff. Even fabric with a frame can do some real damage once it gets moving. Of course this could be a big learning opportunity if you take the time to plan it out, do the math (learn which math to do) and make sure someone is looking over your shoulder.

Second, ask for more help! I recommend that you try to find someone local that can really know what your space is like and what you are trying to do with it. Being there and seeing (and doing?) are just not possible over the net. A local college or professional theater group would be good places to start. Someone there will likely have both the skills and experience to do the job, and guide you along the way. If you have to go to a production company they will likely want to compensated and are probably worth the money. That need not be a deal breaker if everyone is willing to be a bit flexible.

I'm sure others will add to my thoughts. We all want to see you succeed and have a good time learning.

 

[lwinters630]

Well said by RickR.

Stagemanageraw, you must know and details are important. When do you use a nail vs a screw vs bolt. Helpful rule of thumb, if you bought your rigging supplies at the local hardware store don't use it to hang something overhead. Only rated rigging from professional supply house like Roseland or others.

To answer your question I think we need more specifics.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

What is the maximum weight of any one sign to fly?

 

[DRU]

What does your over stage space look like? Is it open with I-beams above? Is it a pipe grid?

 

[Dionysus]

I suggest trying to find a local rigger who may be willing to come in and give you a hand! There may just be a control booth member in your area with the skill set and the desire to help out.
There are certainly ways to fly things like your signs without a fly system, but you need to know what you are doing as has been said before.

Someone might even be willing to do it for a tax write-off (big wink) (he bills you, you pay him, and he donates it back for a charitable tax receipt).

 

[kicknargel]

Someone might even be willing to do it for a tax write-off (big wink) (he bills you, you pay him, and he donates it back for a charitable tax receipt).

Er, forgive the digression, but if this happens the person would have to pay taxes on the amount they were paid, which would then be offset by the deduction from the donation. The end result would be the same as donating your time. Worse, because you'd be paying payroll or unemployment taxes on it. Am I missing something?

 

[RickR]

@kicknargel You've turned it into a 3 way trade. The school, the company and their employee.

The usual procedure for "in kind" donations doesn't involve any cash changing hands. The business writes an invoice for the work & materials and then declares it a donation. They don't get to full value, but the do get most of it. Depending on their tax situation that can be as good a cash. They also get something known as 'good will' which is golden to any business.

@StageManagerAW You might offer advertising in the program and future business in rentals and materials, if they do that sort of thing. At the very least offer tickets to the show, but don't be surprised if no one shows up.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

@kicknargel You've turned it into a 3 way trade. The school, the company and their employee.

The usual procedure for "in kind" donations doesn't involve any cash changing hands. The business writes an invoice for the work & materials and then declares it a donation. They don't get to full value, but the do get most of it. Depending on their tax situation that can be as good a cash. They also get something known as 'good will' which is golden to any business.

@StageManagerAW You might offer advertising in the program and future business in rentals and materials, if they do that sort of thing. At the very least offer tickets to the show, but don't be surprised if no one shows up.

I think anyone trying this should have a good tax consultant first. First, pretty sure only for "donations" to a 501-3-c. Second, I could for instance only claim my actual expenses - like mileage and meals - but not my time. If I had an hourly paid employee do the work or some of it, I could deduct that payroll expense or a part of it. All needs a lot of paperwork to claim and not loose if audited.

 

[StageManagerAW]

Ok. Reading your repsonses, it makes it seem like flying theese, signs, or most of the solutions we have considedered (pun intentended) are over our heads. So, I guess the better question that may get more efficent responses, is what alternatives to flying signage (think Corny Collins sign, Motormouth Record Shop signs and records, Mr. Pinky's sign ,(cans of ultra clutch),etc... have you tried and found to be as, if not more efficent than then tradtional rigging system? Thanks for the repsonses so far.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Are these pieces of foamcore or framed flats?

And easiest alternative is a track - two carriers - sign suspended - simple traverse rigging - keep changing with snap hooks.

Or easier still - projections - one screen and power point and small projector.

 

[RickR]

I'll add; ninja crew holding posts, or just plain post supported signs.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I'll add; ninja crew holding posts, or just plain post supported signs.

I thought about adding it, then thought about females holding the signs (note attire unspecified), and then though about poles - fishing poles or bamboo - one from the wings.

There really are a lot of simple options - unless its an internally illuminated electric sign - but what this is remains a mystery to me.

 

[kicknargel]

If I had an hourly paid employee do the work or some of it, I could deduct that payroll expense or a part of it. All needs a lot of paperwork to claim and not loose if audited.

Right. But those expenses are deductible as a business expense whether they're donated or not. If there's no income, there's nothing to tax.