Getting some upgrades; what should I expect?
- Thread starterTex
- Start date
Tex
Active Member
I know this is an old post, but I hate it when people say they're getting new toys and we never find out what they finally got.
It turns out that the main speakers are OK for a few more years. They're not great, but they'll do. The real problem was the console and the DSP. So we're getting a new console, a new DSP, an amp and some subs (along with some other misc. equipment; don't want to leave money on the table!) Here's the list:
1 GL2400-32 Allen & Heath GL2400 mixing console, 32 channel, 4 buss
1 AudiaSOLO8x88x8 Mic/Line Inputs & 8 Line Outputs
1 RMX4050HD QSC RMX 4050HD Power Amplifier
2 EL36 Cerwin-Vega EL-36 18" folded horn subwoofer, 1000 watts, 30 Hz-300 Hz
1 Super-X Pro High-Precision Stereo 2-Way/Mono 3-Way Crossover W/Sub Out (so I can use one of the subs with my portable system)
Plus installation, cables, connectors, programming the DSP and some PI headsets and beltpacks.
I have an install scheduled next week. I think I'm going to be pleased...
It turns out that the main speakers are OK for a few more years. They're not great, but they'll do. The real problem was the console and the DSP. So we're getting a new console, a new DSP, an amp and some subs (along with some other misc. equipment; don't want to leave money on the table!) Here's the list:
1 GL2400-32 Allen & Heath GL2400 mixing console, 32 channel, 4 buss
1 AudiaSOLO8x88x8 Mic/Line Inputs & 8 Line Outputs
1 RMX4050HD QSC RMX 4050HD Power Amplifier
2 EL36 Cerwin-Vega EL-36 18" folded horn subwoofer, 1000 watts, 30 Hz-300 Hz
1 Super-X Pro High-Precision Stereo 2-Way/Mono 3-Way Crossover W/Sub Out (so I can use one of the subs with my portable system)
Plus installation, cables, connectors, programming the DSP and some PI headsets and beltpacks.
I have an install scheduled next week. I think I'm going to be pleased...
Thanks for the update! The Cerwin-Vega subs are a rather unusual choice for an installed theater system, just look at the manuals and data available for the other products and compare it to that available for the subs and you'll see why it is sort of "one of these things is not like the others". They may work fine, it just seemed an unusual selection compared to the other items. How and where do they plan on mounting the subs?
The Biamp AudiaSOLO is a nice piece but I'm a little surprised at their using it rather than one of the Nexia models, they must have specifically needed the 8x8 configuration of the AudiaSOLO (which also comes as 12x4 and 4x12) or some other specific functionality as the 10x6 or 4x8 configurations of the Nexia models are one half to two thirds the cost of the AudiaSOLO. The 8x8 configuration also reminded me to ask whether you had an assistive listening system, it is an ADA requirement for most theatre facilities and is usually something to consider if you don't have an existing system and are doing a scope of work such as this with a new console and new processor.
And just in case it was not specifically identified, make sure you are getting all the manuals and drawings for the work, including line drawings showing the interconnections with wire numbers, etc.
The Biamp AudiaSOLO is a nice piece but I'm a little surprised at their using it rather than one of the Nexia models, they must have specifically needed the 8x8 configuration of the AudiaSOLO (which also comes as 12x4 and 4x12) or some other specific functionality as the 10x6 or 4x8 configurations of the Nexia models are one half to two thirds the cost of the AudiaSOLO. The 8x8 configuration also reminded me to ask whether you had an assistive listening system, it is an ADA requirement for most theatre facilities and is usually something to consider if you don't have an existing system and are doing a scope of work such as this with a new console and new processor.
And just in case it was not specifically identified, make sure you are getting all the manuals and drawings for the work, including line drawings showing the interconnections with wire numbers, etc.
Tex
Active Member
The Cerwin Vegas are, I believe a good solution to a specific request that I had. (WARNING: Long explanation ahead.)
We traditionally use no scenery in our one-act contest play. A grey unit set is available, but we choose to create an environment with actor's bodies, sparse set pieces, light and especially sound. We have been very successful. We did Sarah Ruhle's Eurydice two years ago and I would never have been able to create those unique places and textures without a sub. I've been borrowing a portable sub from the band to use. It's a huge box on wheels with 2 18" speakers and a cheapo crossover that I would mount in my portable rack. I wanted to add subs to the current theatre configuration, but I wanted to be able to continue to take a sub with me to contest so to solve this problem, my sound guy came up with these. I'm not sure where they will live in the theatre. Since they weigh about 170 lbs. each, I'll definately be building a road box for one.
I'm not sure why he chose the DSP that he did. He may have an expansion plan in mind. The job he originally bid was a total system replacement and was scaled back from there. We don't have an assisted listening system. Not sure why we don't, but the district has plenty of lawyers so I'll let them worry about ADA compliance. Not that they would listen to me anyway!
I'll get all the manuals and drawings. After the recent thread here, I'm interested to see what he says about passwords.
I'm very excited. Thanks for being interested!
We traditionally use no scenery in our one-act contest play. A grey unit set is available, but we choose to create an environment with actor's bodies, sparse set pieces, light and especially sound. We have been very successful. We did Sarah Ruhle's Eurydice two years ago and I would never have been able to create those unique places and textures without a sub. I've been borrowing a portable sub from the band to use. It's a huge box on wheels with 2 18" speakers and a cheapo crossover that I would mount in my portable rack. I wanted to add subs to the current theatre configuration, but I wanted to be able to continue to take a sub with me to contest so to solve this problem, my sound guy came up with these. I'm not sure where they will live in the theatre. Since they weigh about 170 lbs. each, I'll definately be building a road box for one.
I'm not sure why he chose the DSP that he did. He may have an expansion plan in mind. The job he originally bid was a total system replacement and was scaled back from there. We don't have an assisted listening system. Not sure why we don't, but the district has plenty of lawyers so I'll let them worry about ADA compliance. Not that they would listen to me anyway!
I'll get all the manuals and drawings. After the recent thread here, I'm interested to see what he says about passwords.
I'm very excited. Thanks for being interested!
DuckJordan
Touring IATSE Member
I like your sound guys idea, instead of working for what you need also consider future things... as far as the assisted hearing system, our Public school district just hires out a sign language person. ends up being cheaper and is more district friendly as far as usability in all 3 of the high schools.
DuckJordan
Touring IATSE Member
well as with most high school setups only about 1/2 the building meets code, since its a lowest bid wins situation. we have no assisted listening system as far as what that article says and we don't have anywhere near the outlet sources required... but this is not the time nor thread to argue building and running codes about my schools theater.
Two totally separate issues, meeting code is a requirement regardless of budget, in theory if you can't build to code you can't build period. Code compliance during both the design and construction phases of a project must be verified and approved by the Authorities Having Jurisdiction for the building to be permitted and to later receive a Certificate of Occupancy. Discrepancies found and not corrected will result in not obtaining one or the other of these approvals required before a building can be built and occupied.
There may be an important distinction here that should be clarified. "Code" typically applies to issues that could affect the health, welfare and safety of the public. However, here are many other issues that relate to good design that are not "code" related. ADA is actually one of these, unless it is referenced in the local building codes it is not necessarily a "code" issue. ADA also works on non-compliance rather than compliance, a building typically does not have to be 'approved' as ADA compliant but instead must address any allegations of non-compliance, sort of innocent until proven guilty. But should someone file a formal complaint with the Department of Justice, then you may have to prove compliance, 'reasonable accommodation' or hardship or be subject to up to a $55,000 civil penalty ($110,000 for additional violations). The DoJ is usually quite fair, their goal is to get accommodations for the disabled rather than to issue penalties so they are more interested in getting compliance than in penalizing reasonable situations. The problem comes in that spending money on updating other aspects of a facility or system and not addressing ADA makes it potentially more difficult in the event of a complaint to argue that reasonable effort or accommodation was made in the past. Just thought it was worth a litte more complete discussion since it is easily misunderstood.
DuckJordan
Touring IATSE Member
thank you for verifying it i was about to bring it up with the department head, i still will but it will be more of a suggestion rather than a need...
Just out of curiosity what kind of bad experiences have you had. I've loved all the ones I've used. (GL2800-40, GL2400-32, GL2200-32) But there are always the few bad ones from a production run.
Tex
Active Member
Here are some photos. Not very exciting to look at, but it sounds SO much better. These subs rock. You want thunder? I'll give you thunder...
The board. Very smooth action. Very clean sound.
The DSP. I was given the software and about an hour of instruction. It's all been backed up so I'm free to play. I wont. Only four of the inputs and outputs are being used so there's room for expansion.
The thunder. Its twin lives stage left. Probably overkill, but certainly fun. I can take one with me on the road and leave one onstage and everybody's happy. Every conduit from the stage to the booth was crammed full. It would have been hell to run cable so we settled on making the amp portable and running a TRS terminated cable from the DSP to the patch panel. I can put the amp at any mic input so the subs can go anywhere on stage. The money saved on wiring will go for a road case for the amp and lots of lighting twofers and extension cables.
I know there's some overkill here but I'm happy with the sound and very happy with the company that installed. Thanks to all who talked me through the process.
The board. Very smooth action. Very clean sound.
The DSP. I was given the software and about an hour of instruction. It's all been backed up so I'm free to play. I wont. Only four of the inputs and outputs are being used so there's room for expansion.
The thunder. Its twin lives stage left. Probably overkill, but certainly fun. I can take one with me on the road and leave one onstage and everybody's happy. Every conduit from the stage to the booth was crammed full. It would have been hell to run cable so we settled on making the amp portable and running a TRS terminated cable from the DSP to the patch panel. I can put the amp at any mic input so the subs can go anywhere on stage. The money saved on wiring will go for a road case for the amp and lots of lighting twofers and extension cables.
I know there's some overkill here but I'm happy with the sound and very happy with the company that installed. Thanks to all who talked me through the process.
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