Loudspeakers Help with buying portable gear

To address Gaff's point, it was noted that you want four boxes. It was also noted that you have to address a range of venues and applications and that you currently have four mains. That made it seem reasonable to assume the four boxes were four mains. But then bass and keys were noted and when a couple of two mains and two subs options were suggested it was commented that those were what you had been considering. So that makes it seems that the four boxes would be two full mains and two subs. It was noted that separate subs are acceptable but also that setup and operations needs to be as fool proof as possible and there were references to using just two speaker for some applications that would seem to call for full range boxes. So what is actually desired in terms of the types and quantities of speakers is not real clear, and may not be for your either.

Easy things to overlook because they are probably blatantly obvious to you but we don't know the physical size of your school quad, or at least the area of it to be covered, or the size and acoustics of the stage, jazz ensemble classroom and feeder school cafeterias or the background noise levels you may have to overcome in the quad. or the audience sizes involved. Or the levels you run. That makes it difficult to answer questions such as whether it would be loud enough.

Another aspect that may be worth considering is just how much improvement you expect and what may be achieved. For a quick example, let's compare your existing Peavey Impulse 200 to the QSC K12. The maximum overall output is essentially the same, 132dB@1m for the Peaveys versus 131dB@1m for the K12s. The Peavey has a wider horizontal and shallower vertical coverage, which when the speakers are used on stands is usually desirable for covering a larger plan area and/or in spaces like cafeterias that often have relatively low ceilings. The frequency response of the K12 is more extended. Basically, the K12 is most likely going to sound better but it may not get any louder and the coverage pattern may not be as desirable for the applications noted. So if the sound quality is the primary factor then there may be a significant improvement, especially if you add subs. However, if you wanted comparable coverage and/or a noticeable increase in potential overall output then the QSC K12 may not be a great choice.
 
There are allot of great reply's with info. Like many said, what are your needs & want's?
To: Lewru
The speakers I've suggested are all speakers I own - use personally on events, use for installs & rent out. They all have there applications & Pros/Cons. But a great product.
Just a note. I am speaking primarly of the KW series and not the K series. The KW series are made with the birch wood cabinet. I also like the regular K series. The K series is made of ABS plastic and the JBL 612M are made of a wood cabinet. One feature I like about the QSC line that I was sold on is the Two independent XLR inputs. The second XLR input is also shared with a Stereo RCA input. I use this option allot when I use one speaker by itself or even two speakers as a simple PA with a Mic plugged in along with and Ipod, computer or something. It's sound made simple. No additional equipment needs.
Now what I don't recommend from the QSC line are the K-Subs. Spend the extra money on the KW181. They have much better sound out of them. Things to consider that I almost forgot about are when making the purchasing decision is... The Warranty! and reputation. Also look up what these items are selling for USED. You won't see much of a price drop from the Off The Shelf Pricing. That usually says something.
I own many other speakers as well. JBL, Yamaha, Yorkville, EAW & Some of my favorites Cerwin Vega "When it was made in USA" and Klipsch Split La Scala Pro's. That's right, I still use them. I was actually surprised to see that no one mentioned the Yamaha DSR112 or any Yorkville. I don't have and haven't used any "Active" Yorkville, so I can't say. But the Yamaha's are fairly decent speakers. Some have mentioned the hassle of running a separate cord for the power. I thought it was going to be a headache also. But once I started using Active Speakers. It not that bad. I make custom cords. So I have 50', 75' & 100' cords that I made with XLR & AC together for when power isn't close to the cabinet at times. There is a company out there that makes custom XLR/Power Cable, but I think there a little pricy. Also, DBX makes a DriveRack DSP for Active Speakers as well.
So go find some local dealers. You can also work out for them to come demo product at your location usually at no cost. Just so you know what may and may not work for you. Just my opinion from what I've read here. I may be leaning towards the JBL product for your application just for cost consideration primarily. I think I'm forgetting to hit on something I had in mind earlier, but oh well. If I think of it, I'll post it then.

Before closing as I'm finishing up. I stopped and looked up a couple of video's on Youtube. Take a look for yourself. Youtube can be your friend at times. See what other people have to say about products on there. Just don't view these video's, view other related video's and read comments. Remember to take comments as a grain of salt.
JBL PRX612M vs QSC KW122 vs QSC K12 - Which one is better? - YouTube
QSC KW181 vs. JBL PRX618S-XLF - Which one is better? - YouTube

My closing... Buy American Made!
 
That was helpful...at least to me. I didn't really know about the difference between the Ks and the KWs. I would have thought the difference would be minimal. I'll have to look into some custom cables for power and signal. Thanks.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
There are allot of great reply's with info. Like many said, what are your needs & want's?
To: Lewru
The speakers I've suggested are all speakers I own - use personally on events, use for installs & rent out. They all have there applications & Pros/Cons. But a great product.
Just a note. I am speaking primarly of the KW series and not the K series. The KW series are made with the birch wood cabinet. I also like the regular K series. The K series is made of ABS plastic and the JBL 612M are made of a wood cabinet. One feature I like about the QSC line that I was sold on is the Two independent XLR inputs. The second XLR input is also shared with a Stereo RCA input. I use this option allot when I use one speaker by itself or even two speakers as a simple PA with a Mic plugged in along with and Ipod, computer or something. It's sound made simple. No additional equipment needs.
Now what I don't recommend from the QSC line are the K-Subs. Spend the extra money on the KW181. They have much better sound out of them. Things to consider that I almost forgot about are when making the purchasing decision is... The Warranty! and reputation. Also look up what these items are selling for USED. You won't see much of a price drop from the Off The Shelf Pricing. That usually says something.
I own many other speakers as well. JBL, Yamaha, Yorkville, EAW & Some of my favorites Cerwin Vega "When it was made in USA" and Klipsch Split La Scala Pro's. That's right, I still use them. I was actually surprised to see that no one mentioned the Yamaha DSR112 or any Yorkville. I don't have and haven't used any "Active" Yorkville, so I can't say. But the Yamaha's are fairly decent speakers. Some have mentioned the hassle of running a separate cord for the power. I thought it was going to be a headache also. But once I started using Active Speakers. It not that bad. I make custom cords. So I have 50', 75' & 100' cords that I made with XLR & AC together for when power isn't close to the cabinet at times. There is a company out there that makes custom XLR/Power Cable, but I think there a little pricy. Also, DBX makes a DriveRack DSP for Active Speakers as well.
So go find some local dealers. You can also work out for them to come demo product at your location usually at no cost. Just so you know what may and may not work for you. Just my opinion from what I've read here. I may be leaning towards the JBL product for your application just for cost consideration primarily. I think I'm forgetting to hit on something I had in mind earlier, but oh well. If I think of it, I'll post it then.

Before closing as I'm finishing up. I stopped and looked up a couple of video's on Youtube. Take a look for yourself. Youtube can be your friend at times. See what other people have to say about products on there. Just don't view these video's, view other related video's and read comments. Remember to take comments as a grain of salt.
JBL PRX612M vs QSC KW122 vs QSC K12 - Which one is better? - YouTube
QSC KW181 vs. JBL PRX618S-XLF - Which one is better? - YouTube

My closing... Buy American Made!
Thanks so Much. Unfortunatly buying used isnt allowed by school policy. On a completely different note, What digital board that is a true 32 do you recommend. It doesn't have to be portable.
We would like a board that can record settings, levels, and eqs for different numbers, and that also allows you to play back a show, and mix it later.
Thanks again for all the help
 
Thanks so Much. Unfortunatly buying used isnt allowed by school policy. On a completely different note, What digital board that is a true 32 do you recommend. It doesn't have to be portable.
We would like a board that can record settings, levels, and eqs for different numbers, and that also allows you to play back a show, and mix it later.
Thanks again for all the help

Sorry, I'm starting to fall asleep at the keyboard. It will be against the law someday...
What I meant by looking at used gear was as a reference for it's resale value. Typically equals a good quality product if it's reselling close to it's new price value.
 
That was helpful...at least to me. I didn't really know about the difference between the Ks and the KWs. I would have thought the difference would be minimal. I'll have to look into some custom cables for power and signal. Thanks.


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Thanks Chausman
I think the manufacture is Pro Co. It's called Siamese something or other...
 
On a completely different note, What digital board that is a true 32 do you recommend. It doesn't have to be portable.
We would like a board that can record settings, levels, and eqs for different numbers, and that also allows you to play back a show, and mix it later.
Thanks again for all the help

The Yamaha LS9-32 is very popular. It has a 32 channel version, as well as a 16 channel version.

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/products/mixers/ls9/


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Thanks so Much. Unfortunatly buying used isnt allowed by school policy. On a completely different note, What digital board that is a true 32 do you recommend. It doesn't have to be portable.
We would like a board that can record settings, levels, and eqs for different numbers, and that also allows you to play back a show, and mix it later.
Thanks again for all the help
Again, more information is needed to really get into specific products. Is that 32 mic or mic/line inputs? How many and what type of mixes (main, aux, group, surround, etc.) and outputs do you need/want? Would you like to have potential input and/or output expansion capability?

By "allows you to play back a show, and mix it later" are you addressing scenes and scene recall or recording and and maybe some virtual soundcheck functionality?

If you mean scenes then do you have any specific preferences regarding that aspect? Do you need to be able to recall scenes almost instantly? Do you need to be able to 'safe' channels, parameters or even specific parameters for particular channels? Do the scenes need to include the preamp gain/trim settings?

Who is going to be operating the console? Are there any limits on the physical size? Is there a budget?

These are the types of factors that may influence what digital console might be the best fit for your specific application.
 
Whatever you get leave room in the budget for good solid road boxes. If you are going to be bouncing the stuff back and forth to various schools this will prove well worth the expense.
 
It isn't JBL or QSC, but at our school we use a pair (often 1 for small setups) Bose L1 Model 1 Single Bass Speaker Packages. It can move as a single unit or break down very easily. For small events you can mix right on the tower or for larger we can use an external mixer. Sounds really clean and has great balance and a sub that goes along with it.

Bose L1 Model I Single Bass Package

Pretty clean look to it and nothing heavy to lift into the air.

As for mixers we use a Yamaha LS9-32 which is great, but if you never need more than 32 inputs the LS-16 can expand to 32.

My High school is in need of some new portable speakers. We currently use4 Peavy passive speakers, but need some thing much better. These speakers need to:

  • Be portable enough to move
  • total cost(4speakers+amp+stands+cables) has to be less than eight grand
  • Can be active or passive
  • Can have separate subs
  • No peavy speakers
  • No fender speakers
  • Must be durable
  • Preferably JBLs or Qsc
  • If their is an amp it must be programmable and lockable
Any and all suggestions welcome, we can wire and set up almost anything
thanks
LewRu
 
It isn't JBL or QSC, but at our school we use a pair (often 1 for small setups) Bose L1 Model 1 Single Bass Speaker Packages. It can move as a single unit or break down very easily. For small events you can mix right on the tower or for larger we can use an external mixer. Sounds really clean and has great balance and a sub that goes along with it.
Glad to hear the L1 works well for you but it may not be the best option here.

For one thing, even Bose says "The L1 Model I single bass package is recommended for most vocalists, public speakers and midrange instruments, like acoustic guitars, keyboards and horns." However, it was noted that for this application "Most of our performances use electric guitar, bass guitar, and keyboard as well as (obviously) vocals." The bass and keyboard application would likely require more than the single bass L1 package. Some of the discussions on the Bose forum regarding using the L1 as bass rigs suggest that even multiple bass module systems may be limited more to smaller club and coffee house type applications.

Building on that, it was also noted that the system would be used for "Various performances in our school's quad. Usually a live band." and "Mainly in middle school cafeteria+(300 kids) and in our open quad. (1200) really open." The L1 is not going to serve for reinforcement of a live band for up to 1,200 people outdoors, even Bose recommends 500 or fewer indoors. Because of the bass and keys even the 300 people indoors may be pushing the capabilities of the system.

You can mix and send that mix to an L1 but they were not really intended to be used as traditional monitors or FOH speakers. The way the Bose L1 is intended to work is more a system per musician serving as both monitor and FOH speaker.

So while the Bose L1 may be a good option for some situations, I just don't see it being a good fit here.


As for mixers we use a Yamaha LS9-32 which is great, but if you never need more than 32 inputs the LS-16 can expand to 32.
That depends on the type of inputs and if you use external preamps. If you want 32 mic/line inputs, much less 32 XLR mic/line inputs, without external gear I believe the LS9-32 would be required.

The Yamaha LS9 is a very popular entry level digital console and for a number of reasons, including pioneering the market. However, there could be other options, both less costly and more costly, that may also be good choices. It all depends on the needs and budget for the application.
 
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A pro to the EV ZxA5 (and also the SxA360) is they only have one knob on the back - some of the other models have a full mixer. While I would want a full mixer to add flexibility with an experienced crew, a single knob does make things harder to screw up and could be better for you.
 
Again, more information is needed to really get into specific products. Is that 32 mic or mic/line inputs? How many and what type of mixes (main, aux, group, surround, etc.) and outputs do you need/want? Would you like to have potential input and/or output expansion capability?

By "allows you to play back a show, and mix it later" are you addressing scenes and scene recall or recording and and maybe some virtual soundcheck functionality?

If you mean scenes then do you have any specific preferences regarding that aspect? Do you need to be able to recall scenes almost instantly? Do you need to be able to 'safe' channels, parameters or even specific parameters for particular channels? Do the scenes need to include the preamp gain/trim settings?

Who is going to be operating the console? Are there any limits on the physical size? Is there a budget?

These are the types of factors that may influence what digital console might be the best fit for your specific application.
We need 32 mic cable imputs,
we have been looking at the yahmaha ls9 and the i live from allen and heath
 
We need 32 mic cable imputs,
we have been looking at the yahmaha ls9 and the i live from allen and heath
I take it you mean the iLive-T rather than the full iLive but even then in terms of cost something like the Roland M-480 might compete more directly with the Yamaha LS9 with the iLive-T being more a competitor to the Yamaha M7CL, especially the M7CL-48ES with SB168-ES stage boxes.
 

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