LightStud
Active Member
Google Jon-Erik Hexum. Here's one result: Movies promote unsafe firearms use - TheFiringLine Forums.
High School Student Dies from Prop Gun Injury
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Nope, He shouldn't have had to wonder in the first place. Had this been handled correctly noone would have to "check and see" They would have known. This reminds me of a quote that I can never remember about how you fire the rigger that walks in and say, " I think I can do it." He either knows it can or can't be done there is no room for Maybes.
Ah our tax dollars at work.
This a quote that should be blown up to 300 point type and plastered on the walls of every shop in America. Ocasionally the newbie gets hurt doing something stupid but the guys that lose 4 fingers in the bandsaw are usually Pros that have been doing it for a while and it all comes down to comfort level. When you stop being cautious around that 60 toothed spinning wheel that is being driven by 4.5 horse power at 3500 RPM, then it's time to hang up your tool belt and go watch a few safety videos.
Lastly, I hate to sound dispassionate, or like a complete jerk, but really, how incredibly stupid does one have to be ? I use that to describe everyone involved with this tragedy. The kid was teaching gun safety ? Then he's a complete moron. The director, or whomever decided it would be a good idea to allow a live firearm into a theatre should himself be shot, preferably with balloon cutters from 30 feet away < it'll hurt a lot>
And the cops did no one any favors by allowing something as stupid as this happen.
Ok not lastly I want to address one other thing. If anyone out there evers considers trying to modify a weapon themselves, for use on the stage, and you are not a trained gunsmith or certified welder then stop what you are doing and fire yourself. Modifying a live weapon is not a simple matter of shoving a steel dowel down the barrel. There is nothing you can "simply" do to turn a live weapon to a dead one. A firearm for stage use should be kept to an extremely tight regimine of cleaning and inspection
I will aplaud Rochem's safety procedures, that's the way to do it. Even a cap gun can cause blindness. I find there are a couple of types of people when it comes to guns < ok more than a couple, a whole lot more> People who are raised around them and were never taught "real" safety procedures, The kind with real good dumb luck who never kill or get killed only by the grace of God. Then there are those of us that were raised around them Learned the proper care and feeding and haven't had an accident because of the grace of God and because we know what we are doing. Then there are those folks that say, " I don't believe in guns." too which I can only respond, "Really? 'cause I can show you one....."
a loaded gun never "accidentally" shot anyone.
There's much more to say about this tragedy.
For future readers, I want to add in a link to a good recent thread on creating a gunshot sound effect. There are lots of good ideas in that thread about how to do it the right way and also links to some resources for safe stage weapons and professional resources.
Personally my policy is the gun must be completely non-firing or you hire a professional. No exceptions. All guns firing or not get the full Rochem treatment.
...and if you want a good gun sound effect just slam a 1x4 into the deck.
For future readers, I want to add in a link to a good recent thread on creating a gunshot sound effect. There are lots of good ideas in that thread about how to do it the right way and also links to some resources for safe stage weapons and professional resources.
Personally my policy is the gun must be completely non-firing or you hire a professional. No exceptions. All guns firing or not get the full Rochem treatment.
...and if you want a good gun sound effect just slam a 1x4 into the deck.
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I remember the Jon-Erik Hexum thing vividly. I was a fan back then.
We're using an on-stage gun in the show I'm running right now, though not a "real" gun. It's a starter pistol -- realistic look from a distance, no barrel (solid metal - basically a "prop" barrel), makes a loud pop, and the only two people to handle are our TD and the actor himself onstage, kept locked up.
Whoever can come up with a non-firing (no real barrel) realistic-sounding and -looking stage firearm that's affordable for purchase or rental will be able to write his/her own ticket.
We're using an on-stage gun in the show I'm running right now, though not a "real" gun. It's a starter pistol -- realistic look from a distance, no barrel (solid metal - basically a "prop" barrel), makes a loud pop, and the only two people to handle are our TD and the actor himself onstage, kept locked up.
Whoever can come up with a non-firing (no real barrel) realistic-sounding and -looking stage firearm that's affordable for purchase or rental will be able to write his/her own ticket.
An admirable sentiment, and I understand what you're trying to do, but not a good idea. I work at a Colonial re-enactment facility where we use flintlock rifles, and amongst our MANY safety rules and regs it is expressly forbidden to take a ramrod out onto the field at any time (if left in the barrel they turn into very nasty projectiles). Plus, we never fire projectiles, only powder. Only professionally trained "shooters" may handle firearms, etc.
I ASM'D a show in high school. The show had plastic prop guns. I was given a starting pistol with .22 caliber blanks to fire back stage.
I was about 17 at the time. With a hunter education course under my belt.
On one hand there is the minor with a firearm.
the other option was to have a parent. But not just one but 2 so that they can switch to see their kid perform.
I today would rather have the minor who 1) knows the show and the ques to fire as to be prepared to perform the ques safely.
2)would be focused on the show workings the peeking out of the wings to watch the show.
But every show with kids i have done had parents who were good people but just new to theater.
I will give a high school student a starter pistol for a sound effect after i
1) have no doubt in they're abilities that they will be safe
2) lecture him/her on gun safety and why you should not brag to other of what you are doing.
I was about 17 at the time. With a hunter education course under my belt.
On one hand there is the minor with a firearm.
the other option was to have a parent. But not just one but 2 so that they can switch to see their kid perform.
I today would rather have the minor who 1) knows the show and the ques to fire as to be prepared to perform the ques safely.
2)would be focused on the show workings the peeking out of the wings to watch the show.
But every show with kids i have done had parents who were good people but just new to theater.
I will give a high school student a starter pistol for a sound effect after i
1) have no doubt in they're abilities that they will be safe
2) lecture him/her on gun safety and why you should not brag to other of what you are doing.
Many starter pistols do not completely seal the shell off. This means tiny bits of shrapnel can be ejected from the gun. When I was a kid we used a starter pistol on stage in a play. I reached out from behind the proscenium and shot the pistol at a girl who was on the other side... at least 15 feet away. Twice in rehearsal she complained that she had been hit by something. We didn't believe her. However the second time she had a tiny scratch on her. Later in the run of the show I was actually hit by a piece of shrapnel that was ejected sideways, bounced off the proscenium and came back and hit me.
Starter pistols are NOT safe for stage use. This danger is even more true when you put a blank shell in a real gun. (Anyone who doubts this research Brandon Lee).
There are only two types of guns that should EVER be allowed on stage:
1) Non-firing replicas and dummy guns.
2) REAL Professional prop guns. These guns require that a real trained person oversee the stunt. There need to be a variety of safety protocols used in the choreography of the shot ,as well as safety features in the costume, and procedures for how the gun is handled back stage.
There are VERY FEW high school programs who should ever even consider using a firing prop gun on stage. They simply don't have the means to safely do this.
Grommet, I do NOT mean to pick on you here. You may be a very safe and well trained hunter. That's great. However, training in firing real guns is very different than the training to use stage weapons. The VAST majority of accidents involving guns on stage happen because someone thinks their knowledge of handling a real gun qualifies them to handle a prop gun. Imagine if you will what would happen if a professional NASCAR driver had never driven a passenger car on city streets. Sure he's a great driver, but without first learning the rules for travel on regular roads he's going to t-boned at the first red light he drives through. The same is true of gun good responsible owners using prop weapons. It's just not the same thing. On the other hand, if i was looking for someone to become my weapons expert on a show, i would definitely choose the responsible gun owner over someone who had never used a real gun, as many skills and rules will transfer.
As I have written about many times on CB, a piece of 1x4 slammed into the floor. Makes the best gun effect. You'll be amazed at how loud and good it sounds. It needs to be about 4 feet long. Stand it on end with your left foot wedge tightly to the bottom. hold the top tightly with your left hand. Raise your right foot as high as you can on the board. Now slam the board into the floor using your left foot as "a hinge", driving it to the deck with your right foot as you let go with your hand. Be sure to push all your weight through to the floor so that you stomp on the board real good, preventing it from bouncing or creating unwanted sounds after it hits the deck.
Starter pistols are NOT safe for stage use. This danger is even more true when you put a blank shell in a real gun. (Anyone who doubts this research Brandon Lee).
There are only two types of guns that should EVER be allowed on stage:
1) Non-firing replicas and dummy guns.
2) REAL Professional prop guns. These guns require that a real trained person oversee the stunt. There need to be a variety of safety protocols used in the choreography of the shot ,as well as safety features in the costume, and procedures for how the gun is handled back stage.
There are VERY FEW high school programs who should ever even consider using a firing prop gun on stage. They simply don't have the means to safely do this.
Grommet, I do NOT mean to pick on you here. You may be a very safe and well trained hunter. That's great. However, training in firing real guns is very different than the training to use stage weapons. The VAST majority of accidents involving guns on stage happen because someone thinks their knowledge of handling a real gun qualifies them to handle a prop gun. Imagine if you will what would happen if a professional NASCAR driver had never driven a passenger car on city streets. Sure he's a great driver, but without first learning the rules for travel on regular roads he's going to t-boned at the first red light he drives through. The same is true of gun good responsible owners using prop weapons. It's just not the same thing. On the other hand, if i was looking for someone to become my weapons expert on a show, i would definitely choose the responsible gun owner over someone who had never used a real gun, as many skills and rules will transfer.
As I have written about many times on CB, a piece of 1x4 slammed into the floor. Makes the best gun effect. You'll be amazed at how loud and good it sounds. It needs to be about 4 feet long. Stand it on end with your left foot wedge tightly to the bottom. hold the top tightly with your left hand. Raise your right foot as high as you can on the board. Now slam the board into the floor using your left foot as "a hinge", driving it to the deck with your right foot as you let go with your hand. Be sure to push all your weight through to the floor so that you stomp on the board real good, preventing it from bouncing or creating unwanted sounds after it hits the deck.
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LightingPenguin
Active Member
Certified doesn't really exist in the stage weaponry world. People say they are a certified fight choreographer. It really just means the took some classes from someone who is a professional and has done this a long time. Maybe that person gave them a certificate, but there is no real standard certification. This is a great example of why we now have the ETCP certification for Riggers and Electricians.
Trained? Where? Does it mean anything? I know it's not me first of all. If I was looking to hire someone I consider a "trained professional" I would call other theaters and ask who others have used and they feel really knows what they are doing. Unfortunately, that's the best we have in the industry at this point.
How do you get to be "that guy"? Definitely start with safety training with real guns. Learn them really well. Then find classes in fight choreography. From there it's a long mysterious path. Somehow you've got to get in a situation where you are working with someone who's an old expert and learn all the safety tricks.
Where is MagnumBD he does this for a living?
Trained? Where? Does it mean anything? I know it's not me first of all. If I was looking to hire someone I consider a "trained professional" I would call other theaters and ask who others have used and they feel really knows what they are doing. Unfortunately, that's the best we have in the industry at this point.
How do you get to be "that guy"? Definitely start with safety training with real guns. Learn them really well. Then find classes in fight choreography. From there it's a long mysterious path. Somehow you've got to get in a situation where you are working with someone who's an old expert and learn all the safety tricks.
Where is MagnumBD he does this for a living?
but this is how it should be done. there should only be three people that ever touch the firearm. the actor, the SM or ASM, and the weapons master, if there is one. each one needs to check it and make **** sure no one else lays hands on it.
blackisthenewblack
Active Member
Just in response to this thread, Backstage @ Backstage jobs has a very interesting article about this situation, which I thought I would post up as a reminder to all. It includes some details as well as what "should" have been done to prevent this unfortunate incident. Tucker Thayer would have graduated this month
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