How to deal with Client Hours for building use

[soundguy99]

Hi Guys,
Just wanted to ask you all about how you deal with your clients hours for billing purposes, In terms of theater operations.
We have just switched from a venue type system (Flat fee for building) to an hourly rate for our local community clients.
We have found in the past that being community clients, they were in no hurry leaving the building at the end of the night, as well as thinking they could come in and out of the building in the day time, as they please, leaving us the building with over exaggerated labor costs well above what there paying for the building, and has been a burden to staff.
We are purposing a sign in/sign out sheet, in which case they will be billed for hours based on them signing out. and although The implementation of that is a bit of a long story, in terms of disagreements between the Box office and event staff. I just curious what everyone thoughts are on it, and their experiences, and other possible suggestions.
Thanks,
Soundguy

 

[techieman33]

We have a daily rate for use of the building. Before a client signs the contract they give us a schedule for their event. When they'll arrive, what they'll be doing when, etc. From that we can determine what staff needs to be on hand to assist them. Those hours are added up and labor costs are added on top of the daily building rate. If they get done early then they don't pay for those extra labor hours, if they go over then they pay for the extra labor.

 

[porkchop]

The most important part is to communicate to the client what is included in what they already think they're paying for and what will incur additional fees. For instance if you quote a 4 hour event at just 4 hours the client might be surprised that their LD can't show up 3 hours before the event and start cueing without incurring additional fees. It sounds dumb, but one show I was a part of put the entire 20 man crew at the Bell Centre into double time because we didn't understand their contract.

 

[josh88]

The way we always did it, and the way pretty much all of the rentals my wife does which is about 15 a year. Typically the contract gets signed for: Thurs 1-4, Fri 8-12 (or whatever) specific spelled out hours they will use the building. For that time, in the contract its specified that 1 custodian will be on duty for the duration of that time and lock up (and any additional staff members depending on the venue). Once those times are set then the hourly rate is applied and any discounts for being a non profit/community group etc are applied.

this sets the final billable amount, outlines what they will get/who will be there and when they are expected to have the building available/leave. That way its all set down in print and if they run over they get billed extra and you have something to point at when someone shows up out of the blue and 1pm on a tuesday for some reason.

 

[soundguy99]

Hi guys,
Thanks for the responses
I should clarify The way we had it setup was a flat fee for the type of event, musical, band concert dance recital ect, as well as production hours, not the extra hours of them in the building relaxing after the show, nor the overtime that was accumulated by staff in baby sitting this. So staff hours were always factored in, just not just fully. Where now the building itself is an hourly rate there by as long as they are in the building, they are being charged.
One of the issues, now is that because they are being charged for those hours their starting to contest those hours. and its becoming a he said/she said.
Porkchop I agree with you as far as communicating with the client, I have always found being up front and honest with a client, giving them the decision of where and what their spending their money always seems to work, vs surprise costs later on.
The issues with the hours is that you don`t know how many hours has been accumulated until after the event or day has been done, as much as you try to estimate, and their always going to try and contest it.
I was just trying to see if anyone else has tried a sign in /sign out sheet for their clients, and/or ever dealt with these difficult community clients that seem to take advantage of everything, wanting everything for nothing, and give some advice or alternatives to deal with them.
The pro shows, we don`t have to deal with in the same manner, as they respect the process, are very well organized and usually respect the cost, however these community groups are a different breed.
I am also fighting a bit of battle in the sense that our box office doesn`t want give the event staff any information, or involve them in the process, so it becomes even more difficult to be up front with the client, a head or during the event of possible charges, because of that lack of communication leaving the event staff stuck between the box office which handles the settlements, and the client themselves.
Again thanks for the Responses,
soundguy

 

[FMEng]

Lately, I have been the client in a few venues. The more professional venues asked us to schedule the in, out, and meal break times in advance. We were not allowed in the building early, nor were we allowed to stay late. At crew meal breaks, we were asked to be off the stage during those times. Everyone knows exactly how many hours it'll be that way. It takes careful planning, but it works.

 

[SteveB]

In our contracts, the load-in time, all coffee and meal breaks, event performance time as well as expected load-out time is always specified in advance (break times can vary dependent upon how the day is proceeding). The rates are generally a fee for a specified time period and dependent on the event complexity (basic audio and white light recital lighting, added Ion console, added follow spots, added main house audio, added audio monitor system, added wireless, added moving lights, etc...). OT is established after XX time and is a rate specified in the contract. The acts do not come in early, even though house staff and crew may arrive 1/2 hr. early to get space opened and ready - the event does not sneak in the door 15 early. Performers may rehearse while crew is on break (ballet spacing comes to mind) but no tech. work occurs, INCLUDING any work the visiting tech staff may desire to do, but we do not turn off lights and lock the theaters I've heard some spaces do.

 

[MikeJ]

I don't think having the client sign in and out is useful. Spell out a contract, schedule, and labor needs. If the renters show up 2 hours late, tough luck; you still have to pay all of your people. If they want to stay late, fine, just establish an OT rate and time limit if needed. If all they want to do is stay 2 hours late to cue lights, just charge enough to cover the Lighting guy and whoever needs to lock up the building. If they know this is the policy, they will pay it or work faster.

With labor, I usually build in some OT, just in case. In the end, my costs are almost always less than estimated. If you give them an estimate of $20,000 they will be ecstatic about only paying $17k when the bill is finalized. But if it is the other way around, people tend to be pretty unhappy.