Kliegl Bros. Type SP Patch Panel

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by Glossy Shines, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. kicknargel

    kicknargel Well-Known Member

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    How many hours are you getting out of the lamps? Rating is probably 300 hours, and that's ideal circumstances.
     
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  2. microstar

    microstar Well-Known Member

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    I think most of the Kliegl analog dimmers were 0-28vdc, not 0-10. I know the R80 dimmers were.
     
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  3. ETCFIELDENG

    ETCFIELDENG Lin Wheeler ETC, Inc.

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  4. jhochb

    jhochb Active Member

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    Good Morning Glossy

    With a system this old I would check to see if ALL contacts are tight.
    this would include
    Connections to the fixtures
    Connections inside the Dimmers, don't forget the Neutrals
    Connections in the Patch pannel

    Heating & cooling cycles often loosen contacts
    loose wires inside connectors can cause arcing, over heating or ............


    At the end of every leg of a long tour,we took a day or four to check the jumpers



    I havent read all of the posts. so If I am repeating something
    oops


    Good Luck
     
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  5. Glossy Shines

    Glossy Shines Member

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  6. Glossy Shines

    Glossy Shines Member

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    I am lucky if i am getting half of that.
     
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  7. Glossy Shines

    Glossy Shines Member

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    Walking into the studio today... i noticed a bulb blown that i changed last Friday. it had 60 hours of life on it before it died. In a Source 4 HPL 750. I am getting lots of ladder practice in :)
     
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  8. BillConnerFASTC

    BillConnerFASTC Well-Known Member

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  9. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

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    PECO recently changed out the poles, wire, and transformers along the street where I work. For the heck of it, I just stuck my multimeter into the outlet next to my desk. 131 volts. At home, I usually measure 125 to 127. Nothing in the office looked any different than any other day. Photocopier, computers, LED office lighting, all couldn't care about the slightly high line voltage. The same cannot be said about incandescent lamps, especially studio lamps. Equipment and/or taps may have been changed in your area recently. You wouldn't necessarily know. Time to see what your line voltage is. The answer is as close as your nearest outlet.
     
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  10. RonHebbard

    RonHebbard Well-Known Member Premium Member

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  11. Chris Pflieger

    Chris Pflieger Well-Known Member

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  12. Glossy Shines

    Glossy Shines Member

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    You and me both :). I am hoping to get some studio time with my ENG dept this upcoming week. I am eager to find out what the deal is and how to make it right. i can't thank everyone enough that has dropped knowledge bombs on me.
     
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  13. Glossy Shines

    Glossy Shines Member

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    It's going to happen next week. The ENG team got the testing material ready. I will report all of our findings! I am super pumped!!!
     
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  14. Chris Pflieger

    Chris Pflieger Well-Known Member

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  15. Glossy Shines

    Glossy Shines Member

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    We got up into the grid today between newscasts. We tested some of our "problem" fixtures first. We looked at some Mole Baby Redheads we use for back lights (they are bulbed down to 500W) and some Source 4's (575W & 750W) we use for architectural lights & back lights. every fixture came in between 113-118 with a full load. We still have fixtures to test; however, i was not expecting that result. I uploaded the pics of the test equipment. We had a homemade unit and a standard multimeter. I am dumbfounded by the results so far. What should we do next?
     

    Attached Files:

  16. microstar

    microstar Well-Known Member

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    Your Ideal meter is not a true RMS meter and thus does not correctly measure the voltage from an SCR dimming system. I believe your actual voltage is much higher than your measurement, but I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will be along to correlate the average vs. rms voltages.
     
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  17. FMEng

    FMEng Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

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    The engineering department deserves a better meter than that. A true RMS meter, along the lines of a Fluke 117 would get the job done.
     
  18. DrewE

    DrewE Well-Known Member

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    At full on, the deviation from a sine wave for an SCR dimming system is ideally nothing and, in actual practice, not too much; so average responding multimeters (which is what this particular one is) give pretty close to correct results. At somewhat lower settings, the average responding meter will give significantly lower than correct RMS value readings, and return to near accuracy as the levels approach zero. Obviously at full off any meter worth its salt will read zero volts. I'd think at full on the results should be correct within a volt or two (or three or four, to account for possible inaccuracies in meter calibration).

    I think the worst-case scenario is at 50% dimming (50% duty cycle or 50% power, which is not 50% brightness and may not be 50% on the light board) and the reading from an average responding meter is about 75% of the actual RMS value. Put another way, one must add a third again to get the correct RMS voltage. Note that analog meters are not (generally) true RMS meters, so the pictured power line monitor is no better than an inexpensive digital multimeter in this regard.

    At any rate, true RMS multimeters are not all that expensive these days, and if you want to endear yourself to your ENG department and get more insight into what's going on with the lamps, maybe it would be worth getting them one.
     
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  19. FMEng

    FMEng Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

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    Another thought here. Measure the voltage when the building HVAC load is low. It could be that the voltage is only high at certain times, like before the studio starts warming up, and before the heat of the day. A few minutes of high voltage can still kill lamps.

    Electrical loads in the area around your building are also a factor. Maybe it's only high during the late evening news show, when the neighbors are not using much power. This is where a more sophisticated voltmeter with min/max hold can be left in place to log what is happening for 24 hours or more.
     
  20. ETCFIELDENG

    ETCFIELDENG Lin Wheeler ETC, Inc.

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    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
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