Legal advice regarding safety

[troubadour]

Hi all. I'm looking for a legalresource for a very interesting situation and wondering if anyone hasany thoughts.


I'm essentially trying to fire my boss for safety reasons.


The company I recently started workingwith has a tendency to cut corners on basic safety. The employeesare all very safe, it is the owner who knowingly cuts corners (rigsimproperly or doesn't put all the necessary supports under a stagefor example). All of my conversations with him on this topicindicate that he knows the proper way to set up stages and rig trussbut continues to cut corners because it's convenient, saves time and materials, and he's gottenaway with it before. He is stubborn and refuses to change practices regardlessof training (he is certified by StageLine), conversations with myselfand other employees, conversations with certified riggers, and therecent safety craze and new regulations in the industry.


I've been taking pictures anddocumenting the activities and of course correcting these mistakeswhen possible. However I am not present on every job site whichmeans that these oversights will continue despite my best efforts.


I could quit but he'll just hiresomeone else and continue on his current course. I am convinced thatsomeone will eventually get hurt. I'm wondering if anyone knows ofany legal options available for trying to remove him from a decisionmaking role, if not ownership of the company all together. Even if this results in the company being shut down completely and me having to find another job it is still better than doing nothing at all.

Any pointers or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[BanditRO]

My personal opinion is that you may as well quit if things are as you describe. While you would certainly be extended whistle-blower status, you may not want to be around if you win. You most certainly will NOT be around if you do not win.

If, as I understand from your post, the boss is the owner, you will be in a very unpleasant position regardless of outcome.

One thing to note, you say "Even if this results in the company being shut down completely and me having to find another job it is still better than doing nothing at all." You should ask yourself, who else loses their job???

I have been in a similar situation in the past as a TD and ultimately I left with a clear conscience knowing that I tried and any future misfortune would not be attributed to me. This may sound selfish, but one cannot change some people.

 

[troubadour]

I've already asked myself who else would lose their jobs. The entire production crew and half the office staff are in agreement on this. We also all agree that everyone threatening to quit would not change a thing around here except that new, last minute people without proper training would get hired on and put in situations over their heads making the safety problem even worse. Resorting to legal means would not be a case of me vs. the company, it would be everybody vs. the owner. A mass employee exit is not out of the question but we are exploring all options.

I get the feeling that since this company and it's equipment is not fully paid for and we are an LLC and not a sole proprietorship there would be some way to involve the banks and/or insurance companies. They want a safe investment and they don't have one. We all know that they tend to get what they want in the long run.

 

[BanditRO]

Please don't take anything I type incorrectly, I empathize with your position and understand your concerns to the extent it is possible within the context of this discussion.
1) The bank doesn't care about safety, nor do they understand our industry (WESTSUN would NEVER have gotten loans if they did), the banks care if the note is kept current. As long as they get their money, they are good to go. If the company fails, they will foreclose and sell any assets to recoup their loss. LLC means the individual is not on the hook, the Limited Liability Corporation is.
2) The insurance company, depending on the company involved, doesn't know enough about our industry to care. Again, payment is made?? GREAT!!! Something happens?? Every insurance company is in the business of denying claims, not paying claims. They would, in the event of an "event," rapidly educate themselves and hire an expert to provide them the necessary details to show negligence on the part of the owner (or other parties) and deny any claims. See above RE: LLC...

All this said, if there is truly a majority of indviduals willing to stand up and plead with the owner to change their ways, your best bet may be to present a unified front, hence the reason we have unions, and see if the owner is willing to take into consideration the desires of the team.

Approach it from a position of, "We care enough to take a stand, care about the company and care about the owner." The only way to affect change, in my opinion, is by expressing a desire to raise the standard of the entire organization. To approach it as, "You, boss man, are wrong and we know better." will merely generate ill will and put the owner into a defensive position immediately.

 

[gafftaper]

The only thing I can think of is to try talking with your fire marshal. Perhaps he can be taught what to look for and convinced to do some surprise inspections. Or perhaps someone in the city engineering department?

 

[museav]

First, unless the person responding is a qualified attorney or subject matter expert then take any responses offered here as being nothing more than conjecture and personal opinion.

That being said, are any of the issues actual violations of applicable codes, ordinances or laws? There can be significant differences between something done improperly and something done illegally. If it is a legal violation then contact with the local AHJ for that aspect might be your best option.

If they are not any violations of codes, etc. then are there any relevant documented "accepted industry standard practices"? If there are then that gives you some basis for any action you decide to take, be it approaching your employer directly or going to their insurer, clients, etc.

If it is not a code or other legal violation and there are no related generally accepted industry standard practices, then it may become simply a matter of opinion and that can be a very messy area to get into, especially if your employer might be perceived by many as having greater qualifications and/or experience.

1) The bank doesn't care about safety, nor do they understand our industry (WESTSUN would NEVER have gotten loans if they did), the banks care if the note is kept current. As long as they get their money, they are good to go. If the company fails, they will foreclose and sell any assets to recoup their loss. LLC means the individual is not on the hook, the Limited Liability Corporation is.
2) The insurance company, depending on the company involved, doesn't know enough about our industry to care. Again, payment is made?? GREAT!!! Something happens?? Every insurance company is in the business of denying claims, not paying claims. They would, in the event of an "event," rapidly educate themselves and hire an expert to provide them the necessary details to show negligence on the part of the owner (or other parties) and deny any claims. See above RE: LLC...

Some banks have indeed shown poor risk management and there are arguments that is part of what led to the economic downturn. The banks and insurer are invested in that company and if it is doing something that puts them or their investment at risk and as a result of seeing the outcome of poor risk management, many banks and insurers are now much more aware of risk management and may be interested.

My understanding is also that in the case of negligence, fraud and so on by one of the member's of an LLC then the LLC may not protect that individual. This, and the involvement of insurers, also seems to go back to the above, if an action was not a violation of the law or a deviation from an accepted industry practice then it may be more difficult to interpret as a negligent action.

 

[FACTplayers]

One thing to note, you say "Even if this results in the company being shut down completely and me having to find another job it is still better than doing nothing at all." You should ask yourself, who else loses their job???

So 1 person's job (knowingly endangering others) is more important than those who are unaware of the dangers that could potentially kill them.

 

[Cooperhodges]

This is a really sticky situation. we recently had a similar problem. I'm a lighting technician for a decent sized university. For years, because of lack of interest and knowledge of the industry, the university allowed anyone who knew how to rig lights, truss, ect. for concerts, me being one of those people. Something you have to understand however, is that on this University, there were only about 10 to 12 people who knew how to do lighting and rigging. Because of this, we made sure that our work was impeccable, and that it would never have a chance of hurting anyone. In court of law however, that doesn't hold up. So, we had to make sure that anyone doing lighting was insured by an LLC or by the University. I would think that OSHA would have some sort regulation on this but I'm not completely sure. A fire marshal only makes sure that the building is within NFPA regulations, so, unless your rigging endangers the fire code, I don't think that he will be able to do much. Your best bet is checking with OSHA standards and see if there's anything about this sort of thing, or calling your insurance company and letting them know that corners are being cut. There really should be some sort of lighting industry standard/inspection, but as far as I know, there isn't.

 

[mstaylor]

I don't know that there is a good solution. However one solution may be to ask for a company meeting and let everyone air their concerns. Maybe , and that is a slim maybe, he may wake up and cut less corners. Another possible solution would be to organize a few, or even all of the employees, and see if they could pool money, create a LLC and buy him out. Then you can alert competitors than he is less than dependable. I did almost that years ago. I had problems with my business partner so I left and started my own gig.

 

[StNic54]

You can take proper steps by writing letters to venue owners, clients, fire marshals, OSHA representatives, manufacturers (for advice - say he's improperly rigging Thomas Truss, call Thomas and ask what to do). Also you can speak with competitors and ask for advice while fishing for new jobs. Honestly, I've seen plenty of groups cut corners, and it takes losing business or events being shut down before things can change for the better. If your boss sees his actions as cost cutting measures (and you want to keep your job) find ways around his methods, and replace those methods internally. I've introduced steel rigging to companies that insisted upon using safeties or <!> tie line. I've also seen the bad results of simple things like reusing zip wire for uplights in decor. If you have the ability to make decisions, are brave enough to say "no" and walk away, then you'll be the first step. After that, who you contact for advice is of the utmost importance. Again, events being shut down will be the quickest agent of change. If it's a clear fire-code violation, contact the fire marshall. If it's risk-based practices, call OSHA. You have options (without spending your cash on a buyout ).

Good luck, and if you are reading this reply and you are the boss in question, well, um, hi