Looking into picking up some LED Fixtures

[DuckJordan]

Why not be cheaper yet instead of using 20 amp cirucits (cmon these are LED's) use 15 amp and use standard building power, no reason to send it through the dimmer room. Just have an electrical contractor grab off the nearest and free-est? circuit. Or hell add one in to your breaker box. Why send it through a dimmer rack just to be fed standard 120v 15 or 20 amp power?

 

[sk8rsdad]

Why not be cheaper yet instead of using 20 amp cirucits (cmon these are LED's) use 15 amp and use standard building power, no reason to send it through the dimmer room. Just have an electrical contractor grab off the nearest and free-est? circuit. Or hell add one in to your breaker box. Why send it through a dimmer rack just to be fed standard 120v 15 or 20 amp power?

It's really, really, really nice to be able to shut down your rig from the console rather than having to go around hunting for breakers, switches, and plugs after each show. All things being equal, powering from the dimmer rack means you can swap the relay for a dimmer when the LD wants one more special in that location.

 

[DuckJordan]

It's really, really, really nice to be able to shut down your rig from the console rather than having to go around hunting for breakers, switches, and plugs after each show. All things being equal, powering from the dimmer rack means you can swap the relay for a dimmer when the LD wants one more special in that location.

Then why not get some shoebox dimmers DMX will be at those positions anyway... And about the powering issue, throw a switch in line, cheaper more cost effective and don't have to worry about a control module acting up...

 

[shiben]

Then why not get some shoebox dimmers DMX will be at those positions anyway... And about the powering issue, throw a switch in line, cheaper more cost effective and don't have to worry about a control module acting up...

But then dealing with some dipwad who flips the switch. An ideal system would have a rack specifically for relays, imo, but ya know. Or 2x 96 racks with 150 dimmers, the rest relays might be the best?

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Then why not get some shoebox dimmers DMX will be at those positions anyway... And about the powering issue, throw a switch in line, cheaper more cost effective and don't have to worry about a control module acting up...

So now I have to keep track of all those loose shoebox dimmers, the increased number of cables it will take to run data to them, the increased number of cables to get power from them, worry about the increased number of failure points from the increased numbers of connections, and make sure whatever yahoo is lowest on the totem pole turns on the switches every morning and off every night?

If the intelligent fixtures had relay modules powering them, and the space had Unison, it would be effective to program Unison to have one touch key to power fixtures on and off.

I just don't think we are at the point where every circuit should be on a relay and any conventional fixture in a rig should be equipped with its own backpack dimmer. Not yet.

I understand the desire to have dimmer per circuit, but the rack needn't have 216 dimmers in it. Rather it could be made of dimmers, relay modules, straight power breakers and blank slots (for those rarely if ever used circuits). With the demise of the spaghetti patch panels, and the reality of the fact that soft patch cannot physically move a circuit from an unused location to a more beneficial one, the desire for each receptacle in the theatre to have its own circuit is understandable.

 

[sk8rsdad]

In my utopian world, we would have backpack dimmers (with really good filtering) on all conventionals, every device would be using ACN instead of DMX, and ethernet over power data communication would replace all that DMX cable. Plug in the fixture and (after a little discovery and negotiation) watch it work.

 

[Gern]

In my utopian world, we would have backpack dimmers (with really good filtering) on all conventionals, every device would be using ACN instead of DMX, and ethernet over power data communication would replace all that DMX cable. Plug in the fixture and (after a little discovery and negotiation) watch it work.

I think I'm with you on this... Utopia if it were to pan out... I would hope so.
I have not ever done that. I am currently suffering DMX flickering on my set. I should start a new thread on it. Will we eliminate that type of signal corruption/issues when we eliminate DMX? I don't really know.
Here's to a hopeful future: Cheers!

 

[Ford]

Potentially, a more effective use of your dollars would be to distribute power and DMX throughout your facility, and then use distributed dimming (like the ETC SmartBar, or Leprecon DimmerStick). This would serve the dual purpose of allowing you to have dimmers wherever you need them (on a budget), and let you drop power for LED fixtures at any of the locations where you could have dimmers. If these circuits were wired to high power relays, they could be controlled by your lighting console, or by actual switches on the wall in the Booth.

Now for my own commercial post...please ignore if you so desire: Most of our LED units have "power linking" so that you do not need to use a breakout to power multiple units. For installation purposes, our COLORado line would be the products to look at, ETLc/UL/MET listed for permanent install, and in stock at most major rental houses around Anaheim/LA (4Wall, Cinelease, ELS, BlueHaze, PRG, ACDC etc.). [/commercial post]

Most of all...Get some units and shoot them out....AND LEAVE THEM ON FOR AT LEAST 20 MIN, and shoot them out again.
Temperture has a large effect on LED luminaires, and proper thermal management is not something that is obvious unless you leave the units on for a while (hint, if they are cool to the touch after being on for 20 min,they are not adequately dissapating heat...hint#2, if they are reaaaallllly light, and do not use fans, they likely do not have proper heatsinks, as mass is generally required to transfer a thermal load.)

 

[chausman]

(hint, if they are cool to the touch after being on for 20 min,they are not adequately dissapating heat...

That's not good enough? How cool are they suppose to be?

 

[derekleffew]

... Plug in the fixture and (after a little discovery and negotiation) watch it work.

Perhaps MORE than "a little discovery and negotiation"?

More on this self-discovery thing...
Okay, so the grandPA (doubles as a sound desk) console finds that it has fifty Mario3000s attached. But the fixtures have no idea where they are in the rig. How do I find the unit farthest USR and make that #301, and the next one onstage #302, etc.? If I have to turn on only one light, hunt it down and determine that it's #347, then repeat 49 times until all fifty are assigned user #'s, it's going to be faster to set a DMX address before the light is hung. Also, 331, 333, 337, & 339 have custom corporate logo gobos in them, so those must be prepped in the shop, and must be hung in specific places, so there goes the "just hang any light in any position and the console will figure it out" theory. ...
I just don't see all that much benefit to "auto discovery."

I'd rather set my own addresses either prior to, or as, units are being mounted, than to have the control system expropriate my Master Electrician responsibilities.

-----

Potentially, a more effective use of your dollars would be to distribute power and DMX throughout your facility, and then use distributed dimming (like the ETC SmartBar, or Leprecon DimmerStick). This would serve the dual purpose of allowing you to have dimmers wherever you need them (on a budget), and let you drop power for LED fixtures at any of the locations where you could have dimmers. If these circuits were wired to high power relays, they could be controlled by your lighting console, or by actual switches on the wall in the Booth.

... All those panelboards and data-distribution devices have to live somewhere--why not conveniently located in a "dimmer" room?

This follows ST's long-held theory of dimmer economics:
"A dimmer rack is a distribution panel with some free dimmers".
And it's just that, when you factor in the cost of getting from 100,000A of available fault current (on a typical 800A feeder) down to 10,000A of Short Circuit Current Rating on a 20A branch circuit. You can't do it with a single breaker panel, you need many of them--with the associated labor to wire them up.
Do the math with multiple breaker panels and then with modern, high-SCCR dimmer racks: the dimmers are free.
You don't get that with distributed dimmers.

Install a Sensor (or other quality dimmer rack with interchangeable specific-purpose modules) for maximum flexibility.

-----

Most of all...Get some units and shoot them out....AND LEAVE THEM ON FOR AT LEAST 20 MIN, and shoot them out again.
Temperature has a large effect on LED luminaires, and proper thermal management is not something that is obvious unless you leave the units on for a while ...

More at the wiki entry droop.