Martin Sues ETC for Patent Infringement

Of course it is!
 

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  • Harman v Electronic Theatre Controls Patent Litigation.pdf
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Agreed. Seems a day late and a dollar short.... Again, Lawyers
 
I'm kind of surprised the handles were patentable to begin with. I'm sure outside the field of moving lights there would be plenty of prior art.
 
I'm kind of surprised the handles were patentable to begin with. I'm sure outside the field of moving lights there would be plenty of prior art.
PRG Bad Boy has similar handles, and was introduced a few months before the Mac III... prior art?
 
I'm kind of surprised the handles were patentable to begin with. I'm sure outside the field of moving lights there would be plenty of prior art.
These are the handles on the arms of the yoke/head -- not the base of the fixtures. It's a pretty uncommon feature outside of Martin's own fixtures, a couple VL fixtures, and Releve.

Here's a link to the patent.

Overall -- seems like an unremarkable, run-of-the-mill patent suit for companies of this size.

PRG Bad Boy has similar handles, and was introduced a few months before the Mac III... prior art?

PRG's patent -- with a provisional application filed about 2 weeks after Martin's back in '08.

Think PRG sued Martin a month or two after alleging patent infringement though it appears that suit may have been dismissed.
 
Our patent law is so stupid. It's a handle. There's no way that patent should have been granted. Nobody deserves a patent for a handle.
You say that, but how many years of moving light development did it take for a company to realize it was a good idea? Remarkbly many.
 
You say that, but how many years of moving light development did it take for a company to realize it was a good idea? Remarkbly many.
To that end, ETC has many patents that are ornamental (i.e. no specific design feature -- just the look of the fixture). Which given how many no-name brands tried to mimic the Source Four with subpar products, is not wholly unreasonable. Similarly -- do a search on Amazon for "Makita" and you'll get tons of products that are a non-Makita tool but put "for Makita 18V battery" in the product title so you land on their search results -- and they have the same color scheme as Makita to deliberately deceive consumers.

There are plenty of issues with US patent law -- but I'm not sure this lawsuit between Martin and ETC is really that indicative of the larger problem. The many lawsuits ClearOne has generated, on the other hand, show what happens when a company lets their sales fall off a cliff and they try to make up for it through IP litigation. One of those being the lawsuit against Shure where the primary grievance wasn't the technology in the digital beam-steering of the microphones, but the fact it was a beam-steering mic that mounted in a 2x2 ACT grid. Well -- there are literally millions of products that mount in a 2x2 ACT grid.

Similarly, Rosco sued ETC over using their gel names in their software. Not wholly unreasonable on its face in terms of the value in Rosco curating those color recipes over decades, but very dissociated from why Rosco's position in the market was flailing. Rosco stuck to gel where Apollo pivoted to LED's and widgets. Still not very material in their claims, but Rosco may have taken a PR hit from at least some small slice of the industry that pays attention to those things.

Just the wording in the lawsuit that presumes Martin lost sales to ETC because of similar handles on the yoke and not because of a myriad of other reasons is what is laughable to me. I don't see how they could prove that to a jury.
That's not material to the suit itself except in terms of damages. If they go to trial, Martin will seek discovery of ETC's sales data and have an "expert" put an opinion on the possible sales lost to ETC -- on top of royalties that ETC should've paid per fixture sold. I say "expert" not to disparage Martin -- but because that's how any lawsuit like this goes. You get someone with credentials to throw big round numbers out there to try to encourage a settlement for what they actually wanted in the first place.

However, there can be a PR hit from those actions. Wouldn't expect much in this instance, but when ClearOne sued Shure, Audio Technica, etc, there were a lot of dealers and consultants laying into ClearOne about that. You log into their DSP's with what looks like a GUI made for Windows 95 -- they haven't remotely kept up with industry expectations and until recently, many of their products were wholly unusable if you weren't entirely within their own ecosystem. None of that affected the litigation, but I know many people, myself included, laid into our ClearOne reps about it. ClearOne can file all the lawsuits they want, but ultimately if they want to make product sales, they're going to have to fast-forward a couple decades in the development of their ecosystems.

FWIW, my opinion for the last decade has been that Harman kills everything they touch -- but Martin probably has some ground to stand on here. Fair chance they'll settle for some degree of royalties on past sales considering it's a discontinued product that, by all accounts, ETC didn't sell much of in the first place because it awkwardly straddled the HES acquisition where suddenly ETC has a plethora of fresh IP and talent in developing moving head products and the combination of Covid reduced sales before Lonestar hit the market.

It does seem though like patent law could use some tiering. If a feature is extremely novel and complex -- a Tier A patent that gives them the full period of exclusivity. If it's marginally novel over something like a handle -- you get a Tier C patent that's good for 5 years -- not 20. But...the patent office barely has enough staffing to maintain its current mission much less get into the squabbling over categorizing the magnitude of specific patents in specific industries.
 
To that end, ETC has many patents that are ornamental (i.e. no specific design feature -- just the look of the fixture). Which given how many no-name brands tried to mimic the Source Four with subpar products, is not wholly unreasonable. Similarly -- do a search on Amazon for "Makita" and you'll get tons of products that are a non-Makita tool but put "for Makita 18V battery" in the product title so you land on their search results -- and they have the same color scheme as Makita to deliberately deceive consumers.

The knockoff stuff is nearly impossible to enforce though. The Chinese government isn't enforcing anything. So just about all they can do most of the time is have Amazon, eBay, etc remove the listing and maybe get that "company" banned from those sites. Then they just switch to the next random 8 character business name and start all over again. It's just a never ending game of whack-a-mole.
 
I'm kind of surprised the handles were patentable to begin with. I'm sure outside the field of moving lights there would be plenty of prior art.
There’s a guy in NJ who filed and received a patent for a sheave on a pipe attached to a truss tower with two clamps for lifting lighting fixtures. When this was brought to the attention of the RWG more than a few of use scratched out heads trying to figure out how this was approved. And how would you enforce it? It’s not like there is a large market of products developed for that specific use. And how is the idea different than product made for scaffolding for the same basic function?

Point being, patent approval for things that seem intuitive get approved all the time, and the process is set up that someone needs to challenge the patent in order for it to be rescinded.
 
This whole patent thing from a US viewpoint bemused me in the UK recently when watching "Dropout", where a patent was filed just to extract payment from someone else for their development, kind of after the fact. I may have misunderstood, though.

Is it the case that there can be different patent "bars" to reach before being granted, and different interpretation made by courts from state to state?
 
The fundamental thing to remember about patents is the entire process exists to encourage the sharing of ideas. Improvements are supposedly a benefit to humanity. The flipside of sharing is to provide a mechanism for the inventor to receive compensation for their idea. Consequently, the system is generous when granting patents with few obstacles in the way of demonstrating novelty.

Inevitably, there will be people trying to game the system. Many companies build patent portfolios as a defense strategy against some future spurious claim. Acquisition specialists stick a price tag on that portfolio during the merger. Eventually, they will try to monetize it.
 
This whole patent thing from a US viewpoint bemused me in the UK recently when watching "Dropout", where a patent was filed just to extract payment from someone else for their development, kind of after the fact. I may have misunderstood, though.

Is it the case that there can be different patent "bars" to reach before being granted, and different interpretation made by courts from state to state?
In the USA, patent law is not subject to state courts - it is solely federal jurisdiction.
 

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