Mic goes down?

[Chris15]

It may have tripped, but it would have disconnected the hot, right? Or does it disconnect the hot, neutral, and ground? With the current flowing through ground, then disconnecting only the hot wouldn't have done much.

There has to be an active somewhere that's shorting out to ground. The RCD on THAT active tripping is what would have killed the power.
RCDs will kill Active and Neutral.

ANY device that interrupts an Earth connection is likely to be illegal and in all but a handful of circumstances is unwise.

DrPinto, how do you envisage this diode functioning?

 

[DrPinto]

There has to be an active somewhere that's shorting out to ground. The RCD on THAT active tripping is what would have killed the power.
RCDs will kill Active and Neutral.

ANY device that interrupts an Earth connection is likely to be illegal and in all but a handful of circumstances is unwise.

DrPinto, how do you envisage this diode functioning?

If there was a diode in the ground line of my power strip that only allowed current to flow INTO the wall outlet and not FROM the wall outlet, no damage would have occurred. Am I correct?

 

[Chris15]

No, because you are dealing with AC power

 

[DrPinto]

No, because you are dealing with AC power

Whoops. I believe you're correct. That's what I get for spending too much time working on 12 volt auto electrical systems.

 

[museav]

In response to the people who claimed that the tour hadn't done their frequency co-ordination, They did. they are in our venue right now. In their rider they requested a frequency check for open channels that the venue was required to perform and get back to the company about. Fort worth did not do what the rider requested.

Totally understand your point and the difficult situation such shows face. However, not being directly involved I also have a different perspective on some points.

Do you know for a fact that the folks at Fort Worth did not provide the requested information? I have to ask because you state they did not but you also state that the tour did perform a frequency coordination. That suggests that either the tour did receive the information as requested, obtained it another way or chose to perform a frequency coordination without that information, all of which seem to place the responsibility on them. And regardless of whether they were provided the requested information or not, if the tour handled the frequency coordination then the responsibility for the results of that would be theirs. So would the responsibility of verifying the wireless systems worked properly before the performance started.

No idea of it might be relevant to this situation but I have seen a situation where there was a nearby transmitter that operated only intermittently and thus did not affect routine scans or rehearsals, but inevitably affected the shows (this was a traveling Cirque show and it initially caught even them off guard). However, once the problem was obvious then why apparently continue to do bring up the mics and expect a different result? Even if it was a matter of thinking they had it fixed, have people forgotten how to use PFL and monitor sources before putting them out to the audience?

This is a huge rant type issue, but It would be wise for people who don't know about a specific event or venue to not stick their noses in. (people like me who work in venues that touring shows come in may end up correcting you).

A return rant. A paying audience member, who was at the performance, offers their experience of the performance and you, who apparently were not there, tell them they are wrong and accuse them of sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. I think you may be venting some frustration you have related to the situation but when someone is presenting the perspective of a patron both the venues and productions should probably listen rather than tell them they are wrong and that it's none of their business.

 

[Tex]

This is a huge rant type issue, but It would be wise for people who don't know about a specific event or venue to not stick their noses in. (people like me who work in venues that touring shows come in may end up correcting you).

I am quite familiar with the venue and have done frequency coordination with wireless mics there. The information needed is easily obtained. The staff at Bass Hall are not the only people who have it...

 

[DuckJordan]

I am quite familiar with the venue and have done frequency coordination with wireless mics there. The information needed is easily obtained. The staff at Bass Hall are not the only people who have it...

The issue was it was asked, and never given. He could have persuade it more but that's probably partly why the original sound tech was removed from the production.

 

[waynehoskins]

The issue was it was asked, and never given. He could have persuade it more but that's probably partly why the original sound tech was removed from the production.

I will note that in the Dallas DMA, there are no vacant channels other than a guard channel each side of the public safety allocation at the bottom of the band. If I were a venue, I couldn't produce a list of vacant channels, because they don't exist.

The necessary coordination information is readily obtained from the FCC database or various web apps like Sennheiser's in less than a minute, and can be plugged into various programs like SIFM in well under an hour, even before the tour arrives at the venue.

If I were an engineer on a tour, I would be hesitant to blame the venue, since coordination would ultimately be my responsibility. Local insight can help and might speed the process, but its presence or absence wouldn't make it any less my problem.

 

[FACTplayers]

I will note that in the Dallas DMA, there are no vacant channels other than a guard channel each side of the public safety allocation at the bottom of the band. If I were a venue, I couldn't produce a list of vacant channels, because they don't exist.

The necessary coordination information is readily obtained from the FCC database or various web apps like Sennheiser's in less than a minute, and can be plugged into various programs like SIFM in well under an hour, even before the tour arrives at the venue.

If I were an engineer on a tour, I would be hesitant to blame the venue, since coordination would ultimately be my responsibility. Local insight can help and might speed the process, but its presence or absence wouldn't make it any less my problem.

Great post! I have never understood why people love to pass the buck in theatre. In the few (small) companies I have worked with, everyone debates over the fine lines of whose job is whose and they are unwilling to help each other out. It's just sad. I've always taken the approach to just get the job done and done well. If it were my job to coordinate the frequencies, I would have no one else to blame other than myself.

I also wonder what kind of set up they had? Has anyone used the Shure Axient system?

 

[shiben]

Hey just wanted to get your opinons on an operating procedure. A couple months ago I was mixing sound for a musical with a large live pit and 16 channels of wireless mics, with lots of swaps to make sure everyone with a speaking line was on mic. The absolute lead of the show had her mic go down right before a large musical number due to an accidental frequency change (i stupidly didnt lock out the front buttons on the mic) When I soloed her channel and got nothing, but full RF onthe reciever I realized it was deeper than batt issues.

So what i decided to do was kill every wireless and switch to the 6 zone overhead mic array, which provided less than steller quality sound, but i followed the dialogue around the stage to have the lowest noise floor i could so i could really jack it.

Was this the right thing to do? should I have kept the other 15 wireless in the mix? My thought process was try to keep the main character the loudest and if her mic was out kill everything. After the show someone came up to me and asked what happened, when i explained they gave me a dirty look and said it was a stupid decision.

Any thoughts?

Im seriously too lazy to read through 3 pages of responses, but what I would have done is send a hand on with the backup hand-held wireless, or make a toss (preferably not) or something. Perhaps its just that in all the situations I have worked on this is fairly acceptable... Honestly, if it was one scene, sounds like you made a pretty decent cover with what you had.

We all make mistakes. It's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when". Some mistakes are more spectacular than others. Don't beat yourself up over it. It was just your turn.

When you put together actors, musicians, lights, sound, and scenery that all have to work together, it's bound to screw up sometimes.

Quite frankly, whenever I work on a show Im amazed it doesnt happen a TON more often, and I think that this is a tribute to how hard working and professional we as an industry are/have become. If you really think about what needs to happen for a cirque show or a big broadway musical to go off without an apparent hitch every night for months on end, one really has to respect the people who do it and the planning and effort that come before hand. Also, quite a bit comes down to people like the OP who find a problem, and thinking on their feet and having never seen the issue before, find a solution. Might not be something thats new to everyone, but everyone will have a problem they have never dealt with before, most likely during a show.

 

[Blacksheep0317]

This was definitely an RF problem, and at a major metro venue on a national tour at that. The venue was quick to point out in interviews that it was the tour's problem, not the venue's.

Presuming it wasn't RF hardware failure, which of course we can't entirely rule out from the outside, it sounds like lack of coordination. How could a tour come through Dallas and not work out the coordination?

Learning point for students: coordinate your RF. Your life will be so much easier after you do. In small towns you can often get away without it, but in big cities there are no vacant TV channels, not one, so you have to do your homework.

As a house engineer in a venue that is three blocks from one of the largest radio transmitters on the east coast, broadcasting cell phone, radio, television, and emergency radios...im well versed in the woes of RF. I actually used to do a free outdoor show basically directly under the thing for a couple years to. Chaos my friends, chaos. Check RF often an every chance you get. What may have been clear during sound check suddenly becomes awful come curtain. Its amazing what alittle atmospheric change can do. Perfect example. Any "nice" guitar cab in my home venue, will scream the local country station during summer sound checks, and typically have an annoying amount of a Canadian rock station come show. In winter, I get a FM catholic station at sound check and a different country station louder during show.

Wireless mics? Its a battle to say the least sometimes. Just make sure you stay on it guys and it can be fairly manageable. Shure has done an awesome job with their softwares and databases to help make things easier as well.