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Mover Cues on Express 48/96

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by SAWYeR, Feb 13, 2008.

  1. SAWYeR

    SAWYeR Active Member

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    So our HIghschool is doing "Crazy for You" as it's Winter Musical and I've rented two Martin MAC 700 Spots for the show. The board I'm running is an ETC Express 48/96. When I'm recording cues, I know I can use the normal sequence of setting the lights, then "Record, Cue, #-, Enter" even if the MACs are on, or if they are moving from point A to point B. But how do I record the cue if I want them to be in motion during the cue, say for example, a Ballyhoo. How do I record this kind of cue? Any info would be greatly appreciated!
    Thanks,
    Joe
     
  2. Charc

    Charc Well-Known Member

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    I dunno, sorry. Also, I'm not sure the Express has a move-in-black feature (I think the strand 300 does, though I have yet to look into it). You could just create a normal cue, with a follow cue, which just has the mover moving, why not? That's an easy enough work-around.
     
  3. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    There are two ways to do this easily. You can write an FX (Effects) cue, which I know you can do on the Express, though i don't remember how, or you can write a series of auto-follow cues. The good thing about writing an Effect is that you can load the same effect into multiple cues. You can also change the effect and it will change in each instance that it is used.
     
  4. zac850

    zac850 Well-Known Member

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    Step 1) You get a better console.

    However, since you probably can't do that, you should learn the glory of the subroutine cue. What you can do is record multiple cues, with the movers in point 1 of the chase, then point 2 of the chase and so on. Then you create a subroutine cue (blind record cue type 4 i think) and put in the cue numbers you just recorded.

    So basically you want your fixture to circle the stage lets say. You'd move the fixtures to the first point of the circle and record cue 901, then you'd move then to the second point of the circle and record cue 902, and so on and so on. Then if you want this cue to be cue 100, you'd go blind record cue 100 type 4 and then add cues 901 thru whatever your final point is. You can add a "style" to have it bounce or loop and hold for the go (IE it will keep running until you push the go button again).

    Oh, and have fun writing all your manual mark cues. Its how a show I did quickly became a 345 cue show.....


    Or, if you get an EOS you can load the effect screen and draw on the touch screen and have your fixtures do whatever you just drew (well, this doesn't work yet, or at least didn't 2 months ago when I got a demo, but when it does work it will be really cool!).
     
  5. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    /hijack/
    The Express doesn't have "Auto Move While Dark" but yes, your Strand 300 does. It is under "Show Setup." AMWD will work with anything that is patched as an attribute, so scrollers, i-cues, MLs, gobo rotators, etc.
    /hijack/
     
  6. zac850

    zac850 Well-Known Member

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    Effect cues wouldn't work, cause on the express your pretty much limited to 30 channels in each step. Subroutines also give you the ability to change order of steps easily. Also, you can really get high cue count shows, and its all about the cue count, right?
     
  7. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    The biggest issue with subroutine cues is that the Express is a preset console, so the cues in the subroutine will override what is on stage. You can't control ONLY the MLs with a subroutine and layer them on top of the current look unless you record that look in the subroutine. That would mean that any time you need a ballyhoo, you would need to write an entirely new subroutine that includes the conventionals.

    This is exactly what the FX (Effect) editor is for, as they will layer on top of the current cue.
     
  8. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    The express does not have an internal effects generator, be glad that it even has moving light support (I ran movers on the express way before they supported them in the software.... now that was... fun...).

    You will need to get into the macro section of the Mac700's, I have no clue where this is on that fixture since I have not played with the 700's (or for that matter, if it even has one).

    You can make effects on an express by making multiple focus points (you are using focus points... right?) and then catching the unit before it gets to the point to make an arc. It can be a real pain to do, its the reason that any console worth its salt has a built in effects engine.
     
  9. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    Umm, the Express does have an Effect editor. Look in Chapter 16 of the manual.

    Not only that, but according to the manual there is no limit to the number of channels in a step save for the number of channels the console supports.
     
  10. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    A moving light effects engine, ie instant can-can, fig 8, etc....

    Sorry for the confusion.
     
  11. SAWYeR

    SAWYeR Active Member

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    Well that was fast!! To those telling me to get a new console: I WISH. I already spent the Lighting Budget on this show with the lights alone. Grand total: $1081.00. And our school's Theatre Dept. gets ZERO funding. The only way we make money is through ticket sales. I think the MACs have Macros. (Haha...MACros...MAC and cheese...I'm done). Hmmmm...Well they don't HAVE to be in motion!!

    DO note that this was my alternative to not being able to get any Right Arms. Big difference, but hey, I'll take movers any day!
     
  12. soundman

    soundman Well-Known Member

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    I just paged throught the MAC 700 mannuel and I didnt see any Macros. Hopefully they dont go by the wayside It was a good way to prevent console lag.
     
  13. Pie4Weebl

    Pie4Weebl Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

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    lol @ Mac 700's running on an express.


    But really if you are in a space using that board do you really need mac 700s? I would suggest getting a cheaper lights (like a VL1000) and using the spare money to get a hog pc or ipc board.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2008
  14. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    Mac700's vs right arms.... ya... take the macs....
     
  15. highschooltech

    highschooltech Active Member

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    The easiest way i have found to get an Express series to do move while on features is to create a sub that has effects on it. In order to do this hit blind, sub, #, enter, type effect (4 i think), then enter all the channels in that you want to use for the number of steps that you want and then enter the value at each point. It is a real pain in the *** but you can get the console to do it.
     
  16. SerraAva

    SerraAva Active Member

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    The easiest way I have found is make an subroutine cue WITHOUT mover intensities on it. Insert your subroutine cue where you need it in the stack. Go through your cues on A/B, then when you need the effect, hit Go on C/D and run up a submaster with the mover intensities on it. This keeps your previous look on A/B, and the movers ballyhoo on C/D. Cue up your next cue, hit Cue # enter, and then hit go on A/B again. The ballyhoo will still go on C/D, and A/B controls your other channels. If you need to stop the ballyhoo, fade down the submaster and clear C/D.

    Expresses can run two cue lists, you just have to know where you are when you hit the go button. It can be hard, and I often write in my script which cue list the cue is on, and which cue I need to load before I hit go again. Just something that has come with a lot of practice and playing. The other thing you can do is run A/B as two scene preset and cue only your movers. I have done this before on many dance concerts.
     
  17. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    If you wanted a figure 8 ballyhoo, you need to write a subroutine containing at least 8 cues, but 2 are the same cue, for each fixture. Going to Excel now, be right back...

    ...See attached. I did this once, on an original Expression with 14 moving lights, but used the same programming every New Year' Eve for five years. Did most of the number crunching in Excel, then entered the cues in blind, as once I knew the P/T values for Q1, just added and subtracted to approximate all the others. Half the fixtures went CW, half went CCW. They all started at different places. Playing with the fixture's timing channels will do wonders to smooth out the paths.

    Should be a walk in the park with just two MAC700s, but those who only know Hog/GMA/Maxxyz would be lost without their effects generator. The Vari*Lite Artisan did not have an effects generator. In fact Effect Engineā„¢ is a trademark of FPS, later HES. Are we trying to achieve "Hollywood Spots" on the main curtain? I love that!

    I bet I could even do this on a Lehigh, so no excuses, only solutions.
     

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    Last edited: Feb 14, 2008
  18. zac850

    zac850 Well-Known Member

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    You can make it easier by writing macros and linking the macros to your cues. For a show I just did on an Expression 2 I had cue 96 which ran a look into the A/B fader while typing in "cue 500 B/C Go cue 97" this way it would run both cues and then get me back in place for my next cue. Cue 97 contained a macro that cleared B/C at the end of the effect.

    I also did the same thing with subs, having effects in subs and a macro that hit the bump button on the sub to run the effect. In this case you just need to make sure your in the right sub page, and then everything takes care of its self.
     
  19. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    Macro links are definitely an asset on the express. The main reason that I use them when programming (especially ML) on an express is to call sub bumps. You can bump a sub from a macro, so you can get a page of subs that is effects, moves, and so forth, and then call them with macros from the cue stack.
     
  20. Jezza

    Jezza Active Member

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    As a long user of the 48/96, I can attest that SerraAva's method would seem to work the best in your situation. Either using subroutines or an effects cue (blind, sub #, type, 3 -- S1 is your step # and S8 adds channels (pretty stupid, I know, yell at ETC for making creating effects this confusing))

    The advantage to a Subroutine is you have more flexibility and control over the movenment of the fixtures, as well as the transitions in and out of cues.

    The disadvantage is like SerraAva said, if you run the routine on the C/D faders and then hit GO on the A/B faders while the routine is running on C/D, the A/B fader will go on the "Next Cue" which will potentionally be one of the cues in the subroutine.

    I've done 4 Mac 700s on an Express 48/96 before -- it wasn't FUN but it was totally doable. Hell, you can do some MLs on a 2 scene preset if you know what your doing. I think for students sometimes its best to learn to program MLs the hard way, on a console that really teaches you how the fixture will interpet the DMX values and forces you to think about every nuance of cuing them. That way, you have a great appreciation and understanding of what happens "by magic" in one of the higher end consoles. Just my .02
     

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