Multipart Cues on ETC Element

[Stevens R. Miller]

I am trying to understand multipart cues on the ETC Element. In concept, it seems straightforward. But what I see on my screen (I'm practicing with ETCNomad) doesn't always make sense to me.

The director has asked for a sequence of fade-ups from black on three individual dimmers. So, in Live, I have entered the following:

[1] [Thru] [3] [Out] (My default time is 0:01.)
[Record] [Cue] [1] [Enter]
[1] [Full] [Enter]
[Record] [Cue] [2] [Enter]
[2] [Full] [Enter]
[Record] [Cue] [2] [Part] [2] [Delay] [1] [Enter] [Enter]
[3] [Full] [Enter]
[Record] [Cue] [2] [Part] [3] [Delay] [2] [Enter] [Enter]

When I play Cue 1, Channels 1, 2, and 3 all go to zero. When I then play Cue 2, Channel 1 immediately begins to fade up to full, taking one second to do so, then Channel 2 begins to fade up to full, taking one second to do so, then Channel 3 begins to fade up to full, taking one second to do so.

Perfect!

But a couple of things don't make sense to me.

On my "Live Channel" tab, when a multipart cue completes, it always says it's in Part 1. So, when Cue 2 completes, it says, "2 P1." I would have expected it to roll through the parts, ending with "2 P3." Why's it say "P1?"

In my "Playback Status" tab, when Cue 2 plays, its cue number and all of its part numbers show in red, with each part number changing to yellow (or orange, if you prefer) as that part completes, and the cue number likewise changing to yellow when the last part completes. Yet the highlighted line is Part 1, not Part 3. Why does it highlight Part 1?

Editing the multipart cue in Blind is also confusing. I can use Next and Last to navigate among the parts, but it seems to show me the final result, not the parts themselves. That is, the Channel 1, 2, and 3 tombstones for Cue 2 Part 2 all say "FL" in them, with tombstone 2 being in blue (since it raises from the previous setting), but tombstones 1 and 3 are in gray. The manual says that means these are "Default or unowned values." (Page 258.) The word "unowned" does not appear elsewhere in the manual. I am guessing this means another part is setting the value, and it is warning me against setting it in this part (as no more than one part may provide an instruction to a channel or parameter in the same multipart cue (Page 198)). But this makes it hard to know, in Blind, what the stage will look like during Part 2. Is there a way to have the Blind display show me what the actual values will be, rather than the completed values?

If anyone knows a good link on the Element's multipart cues, I'd be grateful to have it.

Also, if anyone knows a better way to do this effect, I'm always eager to learn.

Thanks!

 

[ScottT]

The "Target Status Bar" displays timing, so it shows the first part in the cue. If part 14 was the first part in the cue it would show you that. You can get it to show you "Cue 2" (by pushing Live, or F1), but then you don't have any timing information.
Because timing isn't always by part number. Part 1 could have a delay of 12, so it shows the first part in the cue.
There's no way to see what the cue looks like after X seconds in blind, sadly.

The other way to achieve this look would be with discrete times - "Channel 1 thru 3 delay 0 thru 3 enter". Currently discrete timing isn't available on the Element, but with software version 2.6 (currently in open beta) it will be.

Part cues are a bit of an oddity, especially when you get into effects. Anyways, there's a good video on youtube, found here explaining part cues for the Eos (*not* the element).

Hope this helps.

 

[SteveB]

I stopped using multi-part when discrete channel timing became available.

 

[Stevens R. Miller]

I stopped using multi-part when discrete channel timing became available.

Is that something I would do with an Effect?

 

[SteveB]

Note I'm on an Ion, but check to see if Discrete Timing is an Element option.

You simply key in on a cue, "Ch, XX, Time, XX, Enter, then re-record the cue.

You can set a time for channels separate from the cue time, you can add a delay as well. They channel tombstone view will show little blue t's.

 

[ScottT]

Note I'm on an Ion, but check to see if Discrete Timing is an Element option.

Currently discrete timing isn't available on the Element, but with software version 2.6 (currently in open beta) it will be.

I stopped using multi-part when discrete channel timing became available.

In my mind, there's a time and a place for discrete timing. If I'm delaying a special up on a actor, I'll put that in a part so it's label-able and visible in the cue list. If I'm fan delaying a cyc, or something with a lot of channels then I'll use discrete timing, but also put it in a part so I can label it.

 

[Nsimmons]

The grey values mean the move isn't in that part. Channel which aren't moving in the cue will be displayed in magenta in every part.
So as you Next and Last through the cues in blind you're only looking for green and blue values.

Also try changing your format in blind to spread sheet as this may help you see thats moving in each part.

 

[sk8rsdad]

Note I'm on an Ion, but check to see if Discrete Timing is an Element option.

Element owners are going to like the 2.6 release, now in open beta. You may need to register to follow the link.

 

[MRW Lights]

Part cues are "old school" and kind of antiquated in programming these days, but before they come after me with their burning Kliegl's part cues can be useful when executed as intended which is why they exist even still in EOS.

Essentials: Part cues trigger a sequence of events at the same START time, but allow multiple "parts" to occur with designated timing. The reason they look "funny" in blind and are a PAIN to edit is because you're editing "parts" of a whole.

Think of it quite literally as a race. The "GO" is the starting pistol and the channels in each part are racing each other. Part 1 will finish in X time, Part 2 in X time and so on. The time of the cue will be equal to the longest part, because that's the last finishing time. You can place a delay on a part, but if it's longer than the time of any 1 part you might consider making it another cue all together.

There are instances where Parts, Discrete Timing and individual cues all have their place. It's how you think about it and what works the best for you in execution and editing. No one in the audience cares how it's programmed. What matters is how it looks. That being said I have programmed for some designers who drive me bonkers taking 5 minutes to write/edit a cue when I can cut it in half doing it another way, but that's the key it's not wrong it's different. If I'm programming for a designer who gets caught up in a cue like this I'll ask for the "goal look" and then choose my path of least resistance to make it happen that allows me to write it and edit it the fastest and cleanest for my designer and then on headset I usually hear something like "I don't know how you did it, but that's what I wanted, let's move on".

 

[robmerow]

I still prefer part cues to discrete timing as it makes it much easier (for me anyway) to see the original programmer's intention when editing them (assuming they are properly labelled).

 

[MRW Lights]

I still prefer part cues to discrete timing as it makes it much easier (for me anyway) to see the original programmer's intention when editing them (assuming they are properly labelled).

Also part cues are "easier" if you have a lot of moving pieces in large sections. I think discrete timing is really most effective on a small number of channels or a specific system that you don't need immediate visual reference for.