Need used bates connectors

If Pintech is okay, I have just over 50. A handful are Bates.
 
I take it for granted you are looking for donated plugs? Might call or email around to any theater or production company you can find a name to in offering up a 501c3 tax letter in exchange for the value of what ever stage pin plugs can be spared.

Dependant on what brand you get, friction tape, ferrules, ring or flag terminals in making them properly fitted might still require some budget. A Pinsplitter will probably also be necessary.

-Pinsplitters are available thru most theater suppliers. Chrocus cloth, silicone fiber abrasive Dremmel wheels and electrical contact cleaner with lubricant might also be necessary - available thru suppliers such as McMaster, Fastinal, Grainger or MSC. Pins of used plugs often need splitting in addition to cleaning/freshening up the bright work.

-Friction tape (to build up the outer jacket of the #0 fiberglass sleeve covered wire whip to most stage pin plugs cord grip opening.) Available at most home centers, on certain brands of stage pin plug, the cord grip is designed to only grip 12/3 SO cable and will need friction tape or a Heyco cord grip to hole a fixture wire.
A better solution than friction tape (a lost art in doing so) is if you have free time, 12/3 SO cable and Bates or TMB' and other lines plugs with strain relief inserts in use in-house, ask also for Bates cord grip inserts. (Note if you have TMB ProPlug in use - the cord grip insert does not work with Bates cord grip inserts.) Remove the more modern plugs from your line cable if 12/3 SO, because it with the strain relief inserts will fit the cord grip to any stage pin plug. Than with inserts, use your more modern plugs on the lights, and the older plugs you might get on the cable. You will now have to re-terminate 100 plugs, but will get a better strain relief system.

-Ferrules will be necessary to buy if re-tasking the above Bates type plugs or getting any similar to ProPlug that use ferrules. 12ga. .31" long un-insulated, and a good idea to use a 16ga. insulated ferrule sleeved inside of the 12ga. one (.37" cut down for .31" length) for dual wall protection and proper centering of 16ga fixture wiring. You can also strip double length and more or less fold the 16ga wire in half in just using the 12ga ferrule. If you do not use a ferrule in a Bates type connector, dependent on the fine stranding of the wire a few bad things can happen. I can list them on request, but be assured you want to use a ferrule always.

-Ring or Flag Ring Terminals are required for other types of plugs. Union plugs require two flag terminals and a short length ring terminal, others just ring terminals that can all be sized to the wire gauge. Normally such plugs require the friction tape though because the cord grip is for 12/3 SO type wire and won't grip a fixture whip short of the above friction tape or extra Heyco cord grip I have seen used. Swap them out for the line cable plugs if Bates in use, and your stored or can get extra cord grip inserts from them supplying their surplus (no matter brand) plugs. Normally they have a bin full of extra cord grips not used - of which a handful can be given from. A handful or two of these inserts should be all you need.
So the good thing is dependent on the plug brand, you might be able to use any #8 stud size ring terminal sized to the gauge of the wire in use (remember if necessary the folded over 16ga wire in going 12ga terminal). Such crimp terminals are available at most home centers I think in the insulated version for more modern plugs, or its easy enough to remove the insulation for older styles.

-If using classic Union stage pin plugs, you will need two flag terminals and a un-insulated (short) ring terminal in the #8 stud size for each. I have seen and done both tinned and a special round ferrule (not available) also for them - don't try tinned. To crimp a flag type ring terminal, you need to use either a Klien/Vatco #1900 multi-tool (with it's inner cutting edge ground away). Or any Stakon / Klien #1005 (believe the single jaw model), either with their front cutting edge ground away up to the crimp stop. This to properly crimp a flag terminal. Insulation displacement is a key to crimping any terminal above and especially for these. (Separate topic on why.)
McMaster Carr sells both 12ga and 14ga flag terminals, but do not sell short length ring terminals. I might in the past found short 12ga x #8 stud ring terminals thru a electronics supplier like Allied, DigiKey, Mouser or Newark, believe last time I bought them was direct thru Union. A 14-16ga normal un-insulated ring terminal might be short enough if you strip extra short the ground wire for doing this. Union cable strip length is almost an art in itself.

Good luck on getting the donations, realizing you would probably spend $250.00 for new plugs, but with donations have to spend $50-100 and spend more time.

Hope it helps and ask for more info if wanted about ferrules, crimping, friction tapping or what Heyco cord grip used. Believe I terminated my first stage pin plug... back in like 85'... a few years of experience in there is details useful to convey in doing it right.
 
@Bcoole, have you found some or are you still looking? Ship brought up a good question as well; are you looking for these to be donated or are you expecting to pay for them? Please update.
 
If Pintech is okay, I have just over 50. A handful are Bates.
yes pintech will work fine. and 50 is a good start..

I am looking to obtain these as cheaply as possible but dont expect free unless a genereous soul comes my way...lol
and I can get a donation letter for a tax deduction for any such Generous soul !!!
you can email me at [email protected] to iron out some details/...

THX Brian
 
Last edited:
I take it for granted you are looking for donated plugs? Might call or email around to any theater or production company you can find a name to in offering up a 501c3 tax letter in exchange for the value of what ever stage pin plugs can be spared.

Dependant on what brand you get, friction tape, ferrules, ring or flag terminals in making them properly fitted might still require some budget. A Pinsplitter will probably also be necessary.

-Pinsplitters are available thru most theater suppliers. Chrocus cloth, silicone fiber abrasive Dremmel wheels and electrical contact cleaner with lubricant might also be necessary - available thru suppliers such as McMaster, Fastinal, Grainger or MSC. Pins of used plugs often need splitting in addition to cleaning/freshening up the bright work.

-Friction tape (to build up the outer jacket of the #0 fiberglass sleeve covered wire whip to most stage pin plugs cord grip opening.) Available at most home centers, on certain brands of stage pin plug, the cord grip is designed to only grip 12/3 SO cable and will need friction tape or a Heyco cord grip to hole a fixture wire.
A better solution than friction tape (a lost art in doing so) is if you have free time, 12/3 SO cable and Bates or TMB' and other lines plugs with strain relief inserts in use in-house, ask also for Bates cord grip inserts. (Note if you have TMB ProPlug in use - the cord grip insert does not work with Bates cord grip inserts.) Remove the more modern plugs from your line cable if 12/3 SO, because it with the strain relief inserts will fit the cord grip to any stage pin plug. Than with inserts, use your more modern plugs on the lights, and the older plugs you might get on the cable. You will now have to re-terminate 100 plugs, but will get a better strain relief system.

-Ferrules will be necessary to buy if re-tasking the above Bates type plugs or getting any similar to ProPlug that use ferrules. 12ga. .31" long un-insulated, and a good idea to use a 16ga. insulated ferrule sleeved inside of the 12ga. one (.37" cut down for .31" length) for dual wall protection and proper centering of 16ga fixture wiring. You can also strip double length and more or less fold the 16ga wire in half in just using the 12ga ferrule. If you do not use a ferrule in a Bates type connector, dependent on the fine stranding of the wire a few bad things can happen. I can list them on request, but be assured you want to use a ferrule always.

-Ring or Flag Ring Terminals are required for other types of plugs. Union plugs require two flag terminals and a short length ring terminal, others just ring terminals that can all be sized to the wire gauge. Normally such plugs require the friction tape though because the cord grip is for 12/3 SO type wire and won't grip a fixture whip short of the above friction tape or extra Heyco cord grip I have seen used. Swap them out for the line cable plugs if Bates in use, and your stored or can get extra cord grip inserts from them supplying their surplus (no matter brand) plugs. Normally they have a bin full of extra cord grips not used - of which a handful can be given from. A handful or two of these inserts should be all you need.
So the good thing is dependent on the plug brand, you might be able to use any #8 stud size ring terminal sized to the gauge of the wire in use (remember if necessary the folded over 16ga wire in going 12ga terminal). Such crimp terminals are available at most home centers I think in the insulated version for more modern plugs, or its easy enough to remove the insulation for older styles.

-If using classic Union stage pin plugs, you will need two flag terminals and a un-insulated (short) ring terminal in the #8 stud size for each. I have seen and done both tinned and a special round ferrule (not available) also for them - don't try tinned. To crimp a flag type ring terminal, you need to use either a Klien/Vatco #1900 multi-tool (with it's inner cutting edge ground away). Or any Stakon / Klien #1005 (believe the single jaw model), either with their front cutting edge ground away up to the crimp stop. This to properly crimp a flag terminal. Insulation displacement is a key to crimping any terminal above and especially for these. (Separate topic on why.)
McMaster Carr sells both 12ga and 14ga flag terminals, but do not sell short length ring terminals. I might in the past found short 12ga x #8 stud ring terminals thru a electronics supplier like Allied, DigiKey, Mouser or Newark, believe last time I bought them was direct thru Union. A 14-16ga normal un-insulated ring terminal might be short enough if you strip extra short the ground wire for doing this. Union cable strip length is almost an art in itself.

Good luck on getting the donations, realizing you would probably spend $250.00 for new plugs, but with donations have to spend $50-100 and spend more time.

Hope it helps and ask for more info if wanted about ferrules, crimping, friction tapping or what Heyco cord grip used. Believe I terminated my first stage pin plug... back in like 85'... a few years of experience in there is details useful to convey in doing it right.


Thanx Ship.. unfortunately...Los Angeles & Hollywood is famous for tiny little theaters that use old gear and bates connectors are gold...lol but thats life plus we are looking to get around a100 connectors and dont expect free..
I planned on getting a pin splitter as well. The high school I am helping had absolutely NOTHING and a cool theater drama director with very minimal tech experience. So after a long career of live entertainment and about to relax.. here I am again...lol

I will definitely look you up if I have any questions thanx for the time..
Brian Cole
 
if Dave Stauss offer is for free or discounted plugs, that's a great start! I probably have a drawer full of misc. plugs also (PM me an address). I can probably personally use the tax letter for the donation. (I assume you want single hole and not three individual very old type connectors, though much of what I have is probably female left at this point given I use old plugs for the museum gear.) Good you seem well experienced in the troubles of the older plugs in my cautious warning reply - what might seem easy... is not in asking. Apparently easy for you or me to do any type plug style in cord grip or termination. About to relax I suspect I will be in a similar situation 6-30 years for me in the future for me with a young Daughter that will no doubt be going theater.

Not easy for my Wife who as of today has a problem with the latest lot of #0 fiberglass sleeving. It's a little thinner in seeming to her slipping out of Bates connectors easier. She runs the Leko Dpt' and is very dogmatic about her standards. "Send me a email about what's wrong with the current sleeving and I will forward it to the supplier." Attempting to make her or others use other than a Bates plug would be problematic. I don't get in as many antique lights these days to need to stock other than modern plugs that for general purposes can be the plug for a antique. What I have in stock for other than Bates can be collected up.
 
"Pin splitter"? Whatsa matter, did you momma send you to work without your pocket knife? (Sorry, don't mean to be overly harsh, but gee whiz! )
Gee Whiz indeed, but most schools don't allow kinves. And a pocket knife as opposed to a folding utility knife while it will spread the pins better as opposed to the latter, neither would spread the pins safely, be allowed in a school or do what a pin spreader also does best.

Pinsplitter II (want my v.1 back from who stole it.) It spreads the pin, spaces it to proper size and not too wide in breaking it if Gorilla strength in shoving too thick a blade into the pin for the most part. Though I would differ with the cleaning part of the pinsplitter unless a few/many minutes of high RPM 1/4" pencil stock steel rod run thru its cleaning brush part in both directions over chrocus cloth sanding for cleaning a pin. The cleaning is also important for an option, in my opinion the brush is way too aggressive in needing fixing with 1/4" rod for reaming it's brushes out. The spacing of the pin after spread important also - which just doing a knife blade won't do. Pinsplitter II is good for schools or to take on a plane to the gig. You can trust that what some student you teach in use of it will be able to convey how to properly use the tool with it.

Neot harsh and a very good point that hopefully in response not harsh either is a selling point for thet pinsplitter a good tool for the tool bag in not needing how to pocket knife a pin and trust those taugjht will master and train those they train do it correctly.
 
hey Peoples of the cave dwelling type...
I am in desperate need for Male bates connectors for the set of NOS Colortrans we just got for our students and the auditorium..If you have at least 50 or so, we can use them

Brian
[email protected]
@Bcoole Brian; You've piqued my curiosity, why did you begin with "hey Peoples of the cave dwelling type" when asking about a connector format that's still manufactured, popular and in regular daily use?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
 
@Bcoole Brian; You've piqued my curiosity, why did you begin with "hey Peoples of the cave dwelling type" when asking about a connector format that's still manufactured, popular and in regular daily use?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
and I was going to respond with "You mean GSP is still being used somewhere?"

BTW I used to punish techs that used pocketknives for pin splitting. They invariably wound up breaking pins, never have with my Dog tool.
 
Brian won't need a pin splitter. The connectors he is getting are like new. They have likely only been mated and unmated twice each. I'm just glad to be getting rid of a box of stuff sitting around and taking up space, not to mention helping someone out.

BTW I used to punish techs that used pocketknives for pin splitting. They invariably wound up breaking pins, never have with my Dog tool.
There is definitely something to be said on using the right tool for the job. I can use the hammer to get the screw in, but will have better results using the screwdriver.
 
@Bcoole Brian; You've piqued my curiosity, why did you begin with "hey Peoples of the cave dwelling type" when asking about a connector format that's still manufactured, popular and in regular daily use?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
well I have spent soooo many years and hours of my life sitting around dark theaters waiting for a que or a show to end or a show to start.. just kinda became the concrete cave ya know... and if you are there long enuff with out leaving people begin to look like cave men...lol
 
if Dave Stauss offer is for free or discounted plugs, that's a great start! I probably have a drawer full of misc. plugs also (PM me an address). I can probably personally use the tax letter for the donation. (I assume you want single hole and not three individual very old type connectors, though much of what I have is probably female left at this point given I use old plugs for the museum gear.) Good you seem well experienced in the troubles of the older plugs in my cautious warning reply - what might seem easy... is not in asking. Apparently easy for you or me to do any type plug style in cord grip or termination. About to relax I suspect I will be in a similar situation 6-30 years for me in the future for me with a young Daughter that will no doubt be going theater.

Not easy for my Wife who as of today has a problem with the latest lot of #0 fiberglass sleeving. It's a little thinner in seeming to her slipping out of Bates connectors easier. She runs the Leko Dpt' and is very dogmatic about her standards. "Send me a email about what's wrong with the current sleeving and I will forward it to the supplier." Attempting to make her or others use other than a Bates plug would be problematic. I don't get in as many antique lights these days to need to stock other than modern plugs that for general purposes can be the plug for a antique. What I have in stock for other than Bates can be collected up.


Hey Ship... if you have some stock you wish to donate, I can get you a tax deduction letter for fair market value of all you give. My email is [email protected]. contact me and lets talk details. thanx!
 
I'll get a count and email. Working on a few projects at the moment so might take a few days or not to complete dependant on stuff.
 
Related to this topic, I just tested my Ideal #30-425 double jaw Linsemens Pliers for crimpings a 12ga wire to a Flag ring terminal. Works perfectly in doing so, you don't have to grind away the pliers teeth to make it work. Perfect tool for a flag ring terminal of 12ga wire. Klien/Vatco #1900 might be best in doing a few crimps for other flag terminals especially quick disconnect flag terminals of all sizes. There is no perfect crimp tool for a flag quick disconnect terminal. Klien #1005 & #1006 tools as with varous other brand Stakon etc. will work somewhat as well also as long as you grind off the cutting blade tip of the tool up to the stop of the crimp of. all brands. The problem is the stop of the crimp crushes part of a QD terminal crimped in general for that type of crimp tool.

Such sizes have fallen out of favor with me for normal use over the Ideal for 12ga wire in general for crimping. insulation displacement crimp with a even wider surface area than the Klien or
Stakon versions. + a second jaw for up to 6 ga wire crimping. Useless cutting blade though.

Consider it a crimp tool and do not damage or use it as per a Linsemens pliers (hammer). Very important that it you do not waste time in considering it a proper or normal pliers to grab a bolt with or hit with hammer or use as a hammer. Different design and not a Linsemens for other than crimping use or it will get trashed.
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back