Microphones New Lavalier Microphone Units for High School

[MarcusL]

Hello CB,

I am a student technician in a medium sized (~700 seat) high school auditorium. I was recently made aware that we need to quickly put together a wish list so that we can get an order for equipment in before the county closes out the accounts.

When we were renovated last year, we received a 12 channel (6 receiver) Sabine 2.4 GHz SW72-R wireless system with 6 handheld units and 12 beltpack units. The microphone units that came with the belt packs are headset, pop star style microphones that not only look ridiculous but have already started breaking (2 work intermittently, 2 are completely broken). I figured that one of the top priorities should be new mic units. I am looking at Shure's line of lavaliers, particularly the over-the-ear Countryman series sine they look like they would be easy to position and manage with inexperienced actors. Our beltpacks have 4 pin mini XLR ports, not sure if Shure's mics come in that format.

I am not at all tied to the Shure models, but I have worked with them in a community theatre before and they seemed to work wonderfully. Any recommendations you guys have would be greatly appreciated, I'm just looking for a relatively cheap, reliable set of microphones.

Thanks,
Marcus

P.S. Since I already started this thread, I might as well ask: I'm also looking at getting two gooseneck mics for our podiums. Any recommendations?

 

[museav]

Perhaps some confusion in terminology. An 'over the ear' type mic is usually called a boom mic or earset mic or similar, a lavaliere mic is a different form factor so it is not clear which you are really wanting. In addition, you mentioned the Countryman mics which are not actual Shure products but rather a separate brand or manufacturer that Shure also distributes in configurations compatible with the Shure products. If you want those mics for another brand of wireless then go to the source, Countryman Associates, Inc., they do offer their mics terminated for the different Sabine models.

 

[MarcusL]

Apologies for the confusion. I am interested in mics that somehow mount on the face, whether they be capsule shaped (lavalier?) or earset like the Countryman E6. I think that I would prefer the earsets just a bit more because they are simpler to affix, especially if I get stuck with a show that has mic changes (I shudder at the thought).

 

[Parker]

Apologies for the confusion. I am interested in mics that somehow mount on the face, whether they be capsule shaped (lavalier?) or earset like the Countryman E6. I think that I would prefer the earsets just a bit more because they are simpler to affix, especially if I get stuck with a show that has mic changes (I shudder at the thought).

Look into the Countryman B3 series... they are not earset and IMO that is an asset to their functionality. They can be placed over the ear with a small piece of clear medical tape on the face. They can also be attached to their supplied tie clasp so that the can be used as a lav mic for a presenter (or for fast changes when you don't want to mess with tape on faces). These capsules can also be used as "hair" mics = positioned along the hairline in the center of the forehead (ideal spot if you can make it happen under a wig or a hat).

 

[MarcusL]

I'll look into 'em. Thanks for the tip.


Edit: Question about the B3s. I just went over to the Countryman website and it appears that they offer a lower sensitivity option. Would it be worthwhile to get that or just stick with the standard?

 

[blalew]

We've had good experience with B3s in theater productions, but really they work best in hair (haven't tried this but want to) or taped to the cheek (what we've done). They don't really work well as a 'lapel' mic (clipped below the chin) in a live PA situation, directional lapels are better for this in my opinion. The reason seems to me to be that since the B3 is an omnidirectional mic, it requires closer proximity to the source (which would be the mouth in this case). Whereas directional mics (like the Shure WL185) can be a bit further away but pointed correctly and still get good isolation (for, say, when actors are facing one another).

We managed to get some used Countryman B3s for about $100 (some years ago) and sent them in to get the ends changed to fit our Shure packs.

We have some of the -10dB (less sensitive) mics, you won't have a problem with the regular ones overloading unless someone is singing very loudly & the mic is in close proximity to their mouth.

 

[gafftaper]

And of course there is the big question... What's your budget? $1000? $10,000... it makes a big difference.

Sounds like new mic elements is your first priority and B3's are a great choice.

As I've been saying in a couple of other threads you can get a Countryman B3 and a Sennheiser 100 G3 for around $900ish or you can save $100 or so and get a combo with a B3 and an AT 3000. Both are great choices for most high schools.

But how much do you have to spend and what are your typical mic needs?

 

[MarcusL]

I don't really know how much I have to spend. It sucks, but the budget person just said to make a wishlist. I'm putting B3s at the top of my list, definitely, but we already have 12 Sabine receivers with corresponding beltpacks which have served us quite well. There are certain times when I wish we had a couple more receivers and beltpacks, but that's maybe once a year (when big musicals come in), but I would rather have 12 units with great mic elements than 18 with crappy elements.

The only time we use our beltpacks are for musicals and every once in awhile a lecturer/presenter who doesn't want to use a handheld. When there is a musical, we body mic the principles and key ensemble members if we have any left over.

 

[HornsOverIthaca]

Countryman Mics, such as the E6, have different models with different sensitivity ranges. You don't want to try to mic a musical using the mics designed for a lecturer. The mic will distort.

 

[mwalkertx320]

We run 14 of the E6 omnis in our productions. For the most part I love em.

They do seem fragil - the capsuls tend to snap off easily. I usally have at least one during each production end up breaking. I don't know how - but usally during the show I'll end up with just a funky buzz or something when an actor comes out. Inspection at intermission or after the show will reveal that the tip has snapped off. Of course the actors don't know, and swear they didn't touch it. My best guess, is that it gets caught up during a costume change or them playing with it. We also go though at least a couple of cables during each production (which are replaceable). I've recently chalked this up to the fact that the cables always get taped to the back of the neck to keep the excess cable down, which is probabley interfeering with the strain releif - they always seem to go bad at the earset connector. I've resigned my self to placing a couple of extra E6's in the annual budget along with 1/2 dozen cables or so.

We're a community theatre, so they get a lot of wear during our dozen+ productions each year, which also includes use with the kids in the youth productions. I did order a couple of E6i flexes, but they're too flexable and I can't seem to get a tight fit around the ear for my comfort. I love the fexability of the boom on these, but the ear part is too flexable. The silicone on the ear part seems sticker, but still doesn't give me a warm fuzzy. I've tried the E2 (the shorter E6) but these require more gain, which with a good majority of my group requires extra gain, which puts me knocking on feedback's door.

 

[mbenonis]

These capsules can also be used as "hair" mics = positioned along the hairline in the center of the forehead (ideal spot if you can make it happen under a wig or a hat).

You don't need a wig or hat to do it. In fact, the hat will make it sound worse. A good hair person can hide the element in made up hair with little difficulty.

I third (fourth?) the recommendation of getting B3's. Get the regular version...that's what I bought and I have some pretty strong singers. As long as the mic is in the hair, and not next to their mouth, you won't have a problem with the mic distorting.

 

[MarcusL]

In the event of having to tape the element to the performer's face, will I still get good sound quality if it is placed at the jawbone as opposed to next to their mouth?

 

[CSCTech]

I don't have much input for your problem, but I can tell you what not to get, Sennheiser Lavaliers. We replace 1-2 a year in a highschool setting. The wire is constantly breaking inside, mainly due to disrespective actors cramming wires inside shirts, pants etc. At $150 a pop it is quit a disconvienence. I was thinking of slowly converting to headworn ones actually. But we need 1/8th inch phone screw on jacks.

Clipons, lavs, are nice because they are out of site almost completely unless on bright shirts.

As for goosnecks,
shure gooseneck Search | Musician's Friend
Take your pick : p

We often use goosneck condensor mics for our podiums when there are multipul speakers as no adgusting is needed and things flow better.

 

[museav]

I don't have much input for your problem, but I can tell you what not to get, Sennheiser Lavaliers. We replace 1-2 a year in a highschool setting. The wire is constantly breaking inside, mainly due to disrespective actors cramming wires inside shirts, pants etc. At $150 a pop it is quit a disconvienence.

Is the problem specifically the Sennheiser lavs or lavs in general? Might the treatment noted affect any lavs or have you found other brands or models that do not have the same problems? The latter, what works better, might be good information to share.

 

[BillESC]

I'm going to suggest a slightly different tack. While the Countryman E6 is an excellent mic it is just too fragile for a high school enviroment. Audio Technica offers an over the ear mic that is more robust in construction and much less expensive.

The PRO 92cW-TH has a MAP price of $ 129.00 and would serve your application well.

 

[blalew]

We've had issues with the Senn lapel mics (both omni & directional ME2). It seems that there's not enough strain relief near the jack, because the small wires inside will break & short, causing the crackling. We have many Shure WL193 & B3 without this problem. Seems the cable on the Senn low end lapels is not reinforced internally (with an additional wire) or externally (kevlar in the case of the B3). Not sure if you can get heatshrink over the boot but it might be worth a try.

 

[CSCTech]

We've had issues with the Senn lapel mics (both omni & directional ME2). It seems that there's not enough strain relief near the jack, because the small wires inside will break & short, causing the crackling. We have many Shure WL193 & B3 without this problem. Seems the cable on the Senn low end lapels is not reinforced internally (with an additional wire) or externally (kevlar in the case of the B3). Not sure if you can get heatshrink over the boot but it might be worth a try.

Ah so you have this problem too.

Yeah, when this happens the mic will cut in and out with loud crackling.

I have not tried other brands. However next time I need one I will try to get a Shure.

 

[MisterTim]

I'm going to suggest a slightly different tack. While the Countryman E6 is an excellent mic it is just too fragile for a high school enviroment. Audio Technica offers an over the ear mic that is more robust in construction

I disagree here. While first acknowledging the differences between the E6 and the E6i, the latter is by far the most flexible and robust mic I have ever used. You can bend it up like a pretzel, straighten it out, and not have an issue.

Between the 6 AT mics and the 4 E6s originally bought before I was here, every single mic broken from poor handling has been an Audio Technica.

Again, this is a major YMMV situation, you're making a blanket statement about a brand and i'm countering it with another blanket statement about a brand. Not meant to be a debate, just throwing my experiences out there.

 

[GreyWyvern]

I don't think the Countryman mics are too fragile for anything. Watch this video on their website.

 

[narc792]

If you are willing to sacrifice some looks I'd personally go with the Sennheiser ME4 Supercardiod headsets. The sound quality is superb and you can by the Gen3 receiver kit with them. (ew152g3)...or if you can afford it go up to the ew300 series receivers. While I do love countryman (note I dont use anything omni, I once rented the directional e6's) they are far to fragile and I've lost 3 over the past 3 years. My problem with them has not been the wire though but the connector that hooks into the transmitter pack.