old system, bad facility, DMX???

[Bryce_J]

I direct tech for the middle school drama group in my city. They are doing a musical in just a few weeks and the director wants to fix up the lighting system before the show. Just to give you a ruff idea of how terrible this place is...

- the "stage" is a elevated platform in the wall of the cafeteria
- has no fly rails
- no curtains or curtain tracks
- they have not updated the system in 10 years except for changing the bulbs in a few light fixtures like 6 years ago
-all of the lights that are currently in the system (which is only like 24) are all plugged into 2p&g boxes preeminently wired to two power supply boxes in the "booth" (the "booth" is really just a closet in the back stage left side of the cafeteria) which go to a plug on the wall in the back of the cafeteria for the ridiculously old light board that has some form of cord that hasn't been made in years and is too expensive to replace! all of the lights are split between the two boxes 12 on each box. which goes to the two outlets for the two cables that plug into the dinosaur of a lighting board.
- the good thing is on the back of the two power supply boxes in the "booth" is that both of them have a 5pin DMX in and DMX out on them!
-but there is no plug for dmx up anywhere with the lights or on stage


I am we are planning on buying maybe like 16 LED ADJ mega-par-profile's (yes I realize they are very cheep not the best and not recommended for theater use but the theater department at the middle school has very very low funding) to use as extra led effect lighting to help with the very dull and poor lighting there is now. What I am planning on doing is plugging a new 5pin DMX theater lighting board (nothing expensive like a etc. just something that runs 5pin and saves cues)into a DMX hub. Then I will plug the input of one of the power boxes into the hub then plugging the input of the other box into the hub. Then for the LED pars I was planning on daisy chaining all the fixtures together and then plugging the first fixture in the daisy chain into a ADJ wiflex box (wireless DMX) then plugging the second wiflex box into the hub.

The biggest question I have is that the LED fixtures we are planning on using are 3pin DMX and so are the wiflex boxes. Could I just use a 3pin DMX to 5pin DMX converter plug into the wiflex box in the "booth" and the hub? If so could I do this and still control each of the LED fixtures individually?

I need to have everything ordered by next week so if u have an answer pleas get back to me A.S.A.P.!


ADJ Megapar Profile

ADJ Wiflex

5-pin DMX to 3-pin DMX converter

 

[David Ashton]

yes you can use 3/5 adaptors, wireless dmx tends to be onreliable and those LEDs are basically disco units, totally unsuitable for theatre purposes, I suggest you're just wasting whatever money you have on these toys.

 

[Bryce_J]

we the mega-par-profiles where just the original example. We are renting elation OPTI RGBA washes. But thank you for your help! And sadly we can't run a cable in this venue so we need to use wireless. Nurse are planning on getting that fixed in the Future. But we would only be about 30' from the stage so I hope that will help with the wireless.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[theatricalmatt]

It's possible your old dinosaur of a lighting board isn't that old, and someone makes a converter so it can speak DMX. Or, more importantly, an converter for the dimmers, so that the newer board can talk to them. If you get the model of the lighting board, and perhaps a picture of the plug it uses, we might be able to help.

Renovating a space takes a lot of effort and a lot of vision. There are many things -- like the LED lights you're getting -- that can come out of a small, operational budget. Some of the larger issues -- like running conduit from one end of the caf to the other -- require a lot more money, and coordination with the principal and faciliites. I think by showing that you have good, solid ideas on the low side of things, you help demonstrate to the higher-ups that its worthwhile to invest in the more expensive, budget-consuming efforts. So keep up the good work!

"Cafetorium" is what we usually call 'em, by the way.

 

[David Ashton]

the LEDS you are proposing to buy are around 15watts each so 16 of them would give you the same output as 4 of the units you have hired, I would seriously recommend you have a demo in your venue, I doubt very much if they will be much use, I use similar units for parties and lighting up trees and the like but for a stage show I am sure you will find them totally inadequate, I'm sorry to sound so negative but I see money wasted on this type of gear frequently

 

[Bryce_J]

It's possible your old dinosaur of a lighting board isn't that old, and someone makes a converter so it can speak DMX. Or, more importantly, an converter for the dimmers, so that the newer board can talk to them. If you get the model of the lighting board, and perhaps a picture of the plug it uses, we might be able to help.

Renovating a space takes a lot of effort and a lot of vision. There are many things -- like the LED lights you're getting -- that can come out of a small, operational budget. Some of the larger issues -- like running conduit from one end of the caf to the other -- require a lot more money, and coordination with the principal and faciliites. I think by showing that you have good, solid ideas on the low side of things, you help demonstrate to the higher-ups that its worthwhile to invest in the more expensive, budget-consuming efforts. So keep up the good work!

"Cafetorium" is what we usually call 'em, by the way.

Thank you! I'll try to get a photo of the board as well as the power boxes in the "booth". Unfortunately running cable across the cafiteria is not an option. The school will not allow us to have any form of instillation into the cealing and the room. and we cannot use a cord to go across the floor because they have a very strict safety code against it in the room. That was the reason for the Wiflex boxes but the mega-par-profiles where just an example of being abel to expand with 3-pin Dmx with a Dmx hub. The point of this is to help make things easier to use. The biggest problem with the lighting board is the fact that the two wires it runs off are broken. it is made with 24-pin male to a 24-pin female and they are connected by and indavidual cord for each channel. The problem with the cord is that it is very beaten up poorly made and many of the wires that connect the channels on the inside became detached from the pin it was soldered to. so when we attempt to use the light board we only get half the lights. I looked into getting a new cord and the only thing I couldn't find a replacement. so I went to the technical director at the fine arts center in my town and he didn't know what it was either so he sent a photo of it to a friend of his who knew what it was but it had not been mad in years. He offered to make one for us but it was going to cost us around $700 in total for the two cords. Because we didn't want to spend such a mass amount of money on a light board that can't even save a cue or chase on more than the first 8 channels we decided to update to DMX lighting board so that we can save cues for shows and so we can rent and buy new fixtures and the hub is so that we can expand and use new lighting fixtures and rental lighting fixtures.

 

[Bryce_J]

the LEDS you are proposing to buy are around 15watts each so 16 of them would give you the same output as 4 of the units you have hired, I would seriously recommend you have a demo in your venue, I doubt very much if they will be much use, I use similar units for parties and lighting up trees and the like but for a stage show I am sure you will find them totally inadequate, I'm sorry to sound so negative but I see money wasted on this type of gear frequently

thank you we where actually considering getting 6 elation OPTI RGBA (see phot below) fixtures because I have experience with this particular fixture and find it very effective. thank you for your input and help.

 

[derekleffew]

... all of the lights are split between the two boxes 12 on each box. which goes to the two outlets for the two cables that plug into the dinosaur of a lighting board.
- the good thing is on the back of the two power supply boxes in the "booth" is that both of them have a 5pin DMX in and DMX out on them!
... What I am planning on doing is plugging a new 5pin DMX theater lighting board (nothing expensive like a etc. just something that runs 5pin and saves cues)into a DMX hub. Then I will plug the input of one of the power boxes into the hub then plugging the input of the other box into the hub. Then for the LED pars I was planning on daisy chaining all the fixtures together and then plugging the first fixture in the daisy chain into a ADJ wiflex box (wireless DMX) then plugging the second wiflex box into the hub.

The biggest question I have is that the LED fixtures we are planning on using are 3pin DMX and so are the wiflex boxes. Could I just use a 3pin DMX to 5pin DMX converter plug into the wiflex box in the "booth" and the hub? If so could I do this and still control each of the LED fixtures individually?

5-pin DMX to 3-pin DMX converter
View attachment 10423

The adapter pictured is backwards. You need an adapter, 5-3 . Male XLR5, female XLR3.
The "power boxes" sound like two 12-channel dimmer pack s.
You don't need a DMX "hub" aka opto-splitter. (Normally I'd recommend one, but in this case it's an unnecessary expense. Likewise consider the cost of a long DMX cable (with XLR3 or XLR5) over the wireless DMX boxes.)
Go XLR5 out of your console to Dimmer pack#1 (addressed as 001), out to Dimmer pack#2 (addressed as 013), out of #2 into the wiflex transmitter. From the wiflex receiver, first LED fixture is addressed as 025, others follow depending on which DMX mode they're in.
The LED fixtures cannot be powered by the dimmers, use wall receptacle s.

 

[David Ashton]

Derekleffew, from the description the dimmers are analog not dmx so he will need a dmx/analog converter but he doesn't have the expertise to make up the leads from the converter to the dimmer, he needs proper help, beyond what he can pick up on a forum like this, and someone who can talk to the head honchos at the school and sort out something decent
Bryce, I know you're trying hard and that is excellent but you really are out of your depth, if you were a local school to me I would go out and give a report to the school about what you need and how to do it, try and find a local supplier, I've done dozens of "free" consults over the years, they all made me money in the long term.

 

[avkid]

Did you just make a broad generalization by calling wireless DMX unreliable?
We use it all the time on high profile corporate shows in varied RF environments (most recently one of the largest US airports) without a problem.

 

[David Ashton]

I must be unlucky then, I have some which work well most of the time and I use them for weddings, parties and concerts but they occasionally have glitches which don't matter for these events but I wouldn't trust them in critical applications in theatre, I don't do corporate events, Bryce is looking at bottom end gear and I wouldn't like to risk it personally especially when the option is a 10m cable.
For the dimmer the control cable should only need re-making, about 1/2 hours soldering, I don't see how it would cost $700 to replace.