Mixers/Consoles Opinions on the MACKIE ONYX line?

NickVon

Well-Known Member
I've seen the release of their Onyx line and at first glance it seemed like a good feature set for my kind of venue.

My concern comes from the fact that it seems like of Major retailers Sam Ashe, B&H, Guitar Center, Sweetwater, Full Compass, etc; None of them seem to carry the 32 channel board or have "discontinued it." Reviews that haven't been written by Mackie Press have been hard to come by and I'm wondering if any of you have one of these boards, have used one, know of one or might even have some hearsay on the matter?

As an example right now i'm leaning towards an Allen and Heath GL2400-432, though the macki features set for the onyx (compressor, limiter, effects; that I do know have rack equipment for) might make the added cost workable.

Any thoughts appreciated.
 
The mackie's are quite a nice desk to work with, and are very cheap. I don't know what your budget is, but if you are looking for something with quite a few features, have a look at the Presonus Studio Live range, I think the 16.4.2 is about $4G, but you can link them together to make a 32.4.2 with ease. They have built-in Compressor, 4 band EQ (Pari), gate, HP filter on each channel, plus assignable delay and 'verb. Add to this a built in firewire interface and you have a nice desk! there is a very good review at Audio Technology Magazine - check this out.
 
Mackie has recently had some very serious production issues with their plant in China - this is probably why the stores list it as "discontinued". Many on this board and others do not trust the financial stability of Loud Inc.

I wouldn't buy Loud products.
 
You will find a number of discussion on these boards re mixers

A&H makes a good product and if you want to go with an analog board, the gl2400 is well respected.

That said, I think that going forward you better approach would be to look at s digital board. You will get different opinions but as far as function, stability of the company and value, the Yamaha 01v96, with the 16 channel adat expansion card, and using 2 ADA8000 is a setup that a lot of folks use and has a lot of respect from the professional community. This solution would be in the same price range as the A&H

Presonus is newer to this market, makes an interesting product sort of straddling the recording and live sound market BUT in my opinion has a number of limitations. IMO a digital board in a live environment that does not have moving faders is not a good choice. Yamaha has additional models that you could look at but you would be looking at a higher price point.

Sharyn
 
I've toyed with the idea of a O1v96, (I would need to connect 2 because i am looking for 32 mono channels minimum. The reason i'm shying away from going digital. Is the AH is an upgrade from a Yamaha 2404 :)

We have a large variety of groups that use our 300 seat small venue. Some range from Professional musical theatre/ Community theatre (with hired professional designers and such), myself, all the way to student club events, local church events, dance, concerts etc. So many people that will be using teh console under my supervision are not necessarily "audio people" I've used a Sansa/yamaha board (would need to dig around for the model) when i interned with New Jersey Shakespeare Theatre, but that board had a learning curve even for me stepping into it for just a summer.

have the digital board become intuitive enough for a broad no audio oreinted base to pick them up with a little explanation from me?
 
The 01v96 has built in 12 mic pre's and 4line in, then using the internal adat support you get via the ada8000 an additional 8 mic in, and then with the dual adat 16 input card you then add an additional two ada8000 for 16 additional ins

SO you have 12+8+16 or 36 mic in and 4 lines in for 40 inputs

There certainly is a point re someone only familiar with a standard board (like your vintage Yamaha) will have a learning curve, the trade off is that you basically get an entire rack of additional effects that you don't get with the A&H gl2400

so it really depends on your budget, what additional gear you have in a FOH rack and what you want. It does take a bit of different thinking. It can be learned, and with remote computer access and control there are a lot of folks that would vote in favor of the Yamaha solution.

But if it came down to Mackie vs A&H the gl2400 wins hands down

Sharyn
 
They are good little boards, we have a couple of them in various sizes all the way up to the 48 ch. 8 bus and they're very competitive for the price.

The problem is that LOUD had supplier issues in China and have been basically out of production on a good portion of their line while re-tooling another factory and getting ready for production again. This probably explains why you can't find them in stock anywhere. The smaller boards and powered mixers are just now making it to state side distribution and I imagine that the larger boards are still another few months out.

Personally I haven't ever been a fan of the way the 01v96 sounds, operates, or the conglomeration of other equipment needed to get it to an useful channel count. Small format digital has a long way to go before it can really take on small format analog setups, especially if you're only going to be needing a few channels of compression and gating, and not necessarily on every input. Sure the flexibility is nice if you really need it, but I would examine closely what you're really going to be needing out of your setup before investing in a digital console.
 
You are apparently looking at the 32 channel Mackie but Mackie offers more than one 32 channel Onyx console, there is the four bus Onyx 32-4 and the eight bus Onyx 3280. It looks like the status of the Onyx 3280 is a bit unknown, looking at several forums it seems that Mackie won't say it is discontinued nor are they showing a direct replacement but many retailers are indeed showing the 3280 as discontinued and a couple seem to be clearing out the few they have left.

I keep seeing some of the same consoles suggested every time regardless of the application. And that is the critical issue, the console needs to fit the application. For example, you say "my kind of venue", but what kind of venue is that? What do you actually want as far as inputs, aux sends, etc.? Do you have any preferences regarding Groups, matrix, mute groups, etc.? Using the two Mackie consoles as an example, both are 32 channel Onyx consoles but when comparing the Onyx 32-4 to the Onyx 3280 you find:

28 mono inputs and 2 fully routable stereo inputs versus 32 mono inputs and 8 stereo inputs with limited routing

Direct outs for stereo inputs versus no direct outs for stereo inputs

4 Groups versus 8 Groups (all assigned only in pairs)

6 mono Aux versus 8 Aux assignable as mono or stereo pairs

No mute groups versus 4 mute groups

6x2 matrix versus 10x2 matrix

Integrated compressor assignable to main mix or either Group pair versus no compressor

Shared L/R and Solo metering versus independent L/R and Solo metering

Single L/R output fader versus separate Left and Right Main output faders

$2,200 versus $4,600

So these are both 32 channel Mackie Onyx consoles, yet there are a number of differences between them, some of them potentially significant (e.g. one costing twice as much). That is one reason why knowing any specific preferences or requirements can be important. Beyond that there are issues such as the envisioned users of the consoles, any physical space limitations and any other application specific criteria or considerations.


I believe that digital consoles definitely have some advantages in many applications. Onboard effects and processing, scene store and recall (nice for recurring events as well as productions), a large number of channels in a small footprint and so on. However, while more and more people are familiar with and comfortable using digital consoles, there are still potential issues there. One of my personal concerns is that many entry level digital consoles use multiple layers and most have at least some ability to assign physical inputs to different faders and layers but they also typically have very limited labeling. A visiting operator may have no idea where a specific source is and no idea of what is on fader 6 of layer 2 until they activate that layer and channel. You can manually label the faders as you would for an analog mixer but you might have three or four labels for each channel due to the multiple layers. Electronic 'scribble strips' resolve this but aren't usually feasible at an entry level price point. This is the type of thing that may not be a big deal for the experienced operator who programmed the console, but I find that it can be a problem when you will have inexperienced operators unfamiliar with the system.


LOUD has had several manufacturing problems in China. Right when they first moved much of the EAW manufacturing to China there was a fire in the plant that caused some delays on product availability. Then in December of 2008 a supplier that manufactured roughly one-third of the LOUD products was apparently a victim of the global economy and shut down, leaving them not only scrambling to find another manufacturer but also unsure whether they would be able to obtain any of the existing custom tooling or had to purchase new tooling. That affected the production of a number of EAW and Mackie products. However, I thought they were through all of that months ago with full production supposedly being restored in April, 2009 ( LOUD Technologies Inc. - News), so I'm not sure that is relevant to the Onyx 3280 availability. Maybe they're just slow in releasing a replacement or reevaluating some markets in light of today's economy and some of the changes to their competition.
 
Rumor has it that Mackie is once again abandoning medium and large format consoles in favor of compact ones.
IMHO the LOUD ship is sinking fast, and quality is going with it.
 
I have a 32-4 that we have used for live radio remote broadcasts. The broadcasts have included everything from radio plays to jazz big bands. The console sounds good, especially the EQ's and the bus assignable compressor. The mic preamps show off our Neumann mics very well.

The only thing I could fault is the presence of a fan for the power supply, although it is a very quiet fan. I suspect that fans are showing up in many large mixers that have internal power supplies, but nobody volunteers that information.

There are other consoles I would have rather have, but the budget and delivery time didn't permit anything else. It has served us very well.
 
The Onyx are good consoles. However for a number of reasons having nothing to do with the console itself, I would not buy one. I'd get a GL2400 or GL2200 and some outboard, or an O1V96 and some preamps. Or a pair of StudioLive, which is not a bad console at all. Of course if the budget allows I'd get an LS9. If you don't already have a good snake, 24 channels will do, and the budget allows, consider the Roland digital (although I prefer the Yamaha EQ - I hate shelving bass and treble controls).
 
@Museav

Thanks for your thoughts. The GL2400-432 is really probably the prime board as far as features sets go for my space and is what i'm looking at more so over the cost of what would be the 4500$ Mackie onyx.

What was potentially tipping the sacles for my favorablity was that it had the onboard effects/compressor etc that i don't really have rack equipemtn for at all at this point.

If was looking at the Mackie Onyx I was looking at tthe 3280 version :)

I'm also no curious on perhaps your thoughts as the Onyx and the GL 2400 compare to the Yamaha MG32/14FX (this was suggested a friend who works with a group that does frequent rentals of our venue.)

It's a even simpler board doesn't have the matrix'ing that i'm looking for and the only thing that it appears to bring to the table are two effects processors and a price factor coming in at 1200 dollars cheaper. I've determined that as cool as the various effects/compressors/limiters, and such built go, they really are an added bonus to 32 mono, board that in the price range of 2-3.4k

I appreciate everyone's imput and it looks like everyone loves the A&H GL series :) (Goes a long way in my book)

Will check out that link for console reviews posted earlier, thank you everyone.
 
It should be noted that the GL2400 has fewer features than the Onyx 3280.

The Onyx 80 series gives you four more busses, two more aux sends which are all switchable pre-post and stereo, mute groups, and dedicated stereo return channels.

The only way the GL2400 ups the Onyx is that it has two more matrix buses with a total of four, while the Onyx only has two.

Given the choice between the two I would go with the Mackie.
 
It should be noted that the GL2400 has fewer features than the Onyx 3280.

The Onyx 80 series gives you four more busses, two more aux sends which are all switchable pre-post and stereo, mute groups, and dedicated stereo return channels.

The only way the GL2400 ups the Onyx is that it has two more matrix buses with a total of four, while the Onyx only has two.

Given the choice between the two I would go with the Mackie.
One could easily argue that the other ways the A&H GL2400-32 potentially 'ups' the Mackie Onyx 3280 is that it is available and that it costs $2,000 less. ;) It actually seems that based on both cost and functionality the A&H GL2400-32 is much more directly comparable to the Mackie Onyx 32-4 while the A&H competitor to the Mackie Onyx 3280 would be the GL2800-32.

On the Yamaha MG32/14FX, you start seeing differences such as less flexible and less comprehensive channel EQ, auxes switchable pre/post only in pairs, the 32 inputs being 24 mono inputs and 4 stereo line level inputs, phantom power switchable only in groups of 8 rather than per input, no direct outputs and so on. You also start getting into things like single board construction versus modular construction. Having onboard effects may be nice but at this level of console they typically have limitations, for example I don't believe that you can assign a group to an effect (you also can't mute groups). And there are definitely some tradeoffs in sound quality. It's basically a lot for the money for people who can or are willing to make the tradeoffs elsewhere. In most theatrical applications I'm not sure the onboard effects justify the things lost, but that is just one person's opinion.
 
Brad's comments about the Onyx Vs. GL 4 bus/8 bus are spot on.

I've not cared for any of the (affordable) analog Yamaha consoles that I've mixed on. My main complaint is that the EQ pot law is screwy - it's very hard to make fine boost/cut adjustments. But I also don't care for the bus architecture. In a digital it's OK, but in an analog I prefer a traditional approach (but then again, now that I am used to it on the LS9, I might like it just fine if I had to mix on a Yammie analog).

Bottom line: Allen & Heath. You might even look around for a clean GL3300. Most of them are WELL used, but you might find a nice church board someplace.

Here's a bargain, but it's likely gone already (you could sell the case): http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/514205/53411/0///255/#msg_514205
 
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thanks for all the feed back folks, much appreciated, i'll let you know what I decide on here in the next month or so :)
 

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