PC CONTROL VS. CONSOLE

[danhr]

I'm going to chime in for the PC/Dongle. If you're doing basically straight theatre you can't beat the price. We switched over this year mainly to simplify patching (the room has an unorthodox circuit system) and then discovered how easy the programming is. We're using the basic Enttec dongle and LightsUp!, which is extremely easy to use. The setup is great as we run sound Q's and lights on one laptop which also saves space, and can place the dimmer packs with the instruments. Three shows so far, no problems crashing or anything else ( one review even mentioned the smoothness of the lighting transitions!) Dongle- $56. Program- free. 48 channels + softpatching, priceless!

 

[SteveB]

Brutal.

But thats what makes you a consumate professional.

Right now I'm a consumate crank. The show returns 12/26. 6AM load in

 

[len]

I've actually never had a control computer crash on me. Mostly because unlike home computers and such, the ones I use are stripped of everything except the programs needed to run and whatever show software is on it. Nothing to bog it down or steal memory. Some routine maintenance cleaning them out and they are good to go usually. At least with my experience.

The idea that a pc is less than a standalone console because it is a computer is illogical. The problem comes, as mentioned, when people use the pc as a web surfer, which is where 99.99999% of all viruses come from. So keep your lighting pc away from the interwebs, maintain it as you would any other piece of electronics, and you'll be fine.

 

[SteveB]

The idea that a pc is less than a standalone console because it is a computer is illogical. .

No it's not. A PC with no interface designed to be an ergonomic interaction with the operator is not and can not be as efficient as a dedicated desk. By your logic, you could design the controls to an Airbus to be a keyboard and a mouse, it's all just a computer, right ?.

But they don't. They pay very close attention to the design and layout of the control interface to make flying the plane as safe and effective as possible. Behind the control surfaces it's just a bunch of computers, but you need to be able to have a human operate the system and that calls for a specific interface.

Now stage lighting control is not as task oriented as a flight deck, but there isn't a skilled lighting desk programmer that would trade a GrandMA, Hog III or Eos desk for the off-line version in a programming environment.

 

[len]

To rephrase: To say that pc control is inferior to a console because a pc is more prone to crashing is illogical. I've seen hogs and MA crash. Avo, too. Yes, a standalone has a better interface for most things (maybe all), but to rule out a pc because it can crash is to ignore history.

 

[jglodeklights]

No it's not. A PC with no interface designed to be an ergonomic interaction with the operator is not and can not be as efficient as a dedicated desk. By your logic, you could design the controls to an Airbus to be a keyboard and a mouse, it's all just a computer, right ?.



But they don't. They pay very close attention to the design and layout of the control interface to make flying the plane as safe and effective as possible. Behind the control surfaces it's just a bunch of computers, but you need to be able to have a human operate the system and that calls for a specific interface.

Now stage lighting control is not as task oriented as a flight deck, but there isn't a skilled lighting desk programmer that would trade a GrandMA, Hog III or Eos desk for the off-line version in a programming environment.

Agreed. However, GAM has made a point with the Plexus software to making PC based control a viable option. Yes, it still needs a lot of work, but it is getting somewhere.

 

[gafftaper]

I'm a regular user of MagicQ and while it's free I don't like it. It's far too complicated to do what you want to do without the matching hardware control surface... which you can't afford.

Check out Enntec's DPRO and Dmxis. DMXis is really designed for small bands and DJ's but it includes both software and a USB/DMX dongle for about $250 and can certainly work for a small theater production. I have only seen the demo, but it looked way more friendly than my experience with MagicQ and very easy to work with. DPro is more powerful and more what you expect from a lighting console, but it will cost you about double by the time you buy the software and dongle. I haven't used it either but DvsDave shot demo video of it at LDI which you can watch here.

Finally, check out Gam's Plexus. One of our buddies here on CB Jchenault is the co-creator of Plexus and I know will be happy to answer any questions you throw at him via PM. DvsDave sat down with Jchenault at LDI and shot demo video here (That would also be a good place to ask John questions about the software). I'm not sure what it costs.

 

[TimMiller]

Since you are local I would go drop by stage light or give them a call. They can give you ideas for consoles that will fall in or close to your budget. They are a nice group of knowledgeable people over there. If you ever get in a bind I'm not far away from magnolia. Be sure to check out www.stagelight.com

 

[dmxinblacks]

From personal experience i have now run 3 different 100+ cue shows off of a mac running parallels running windows xp 32, using a copy of Lightfactory and an Enttec USB Pro Dongle and I've never had any trouble with crashing, bugs, viruses, etc . . . One of these shows involved 2 moving lights

Personally i would rather be using an Ion but this is $6000 cheaper, the system in total, not including the laptop cost about $100, also not including the USB cable to connect the dongle to the computer.

Plus, for $4.99 on the app store, an iPhone app called Mobile Mouse Pro makes a lovely focus remote if you have a wifi network.

I agree with len
"The idea that a pc is less than a standalone console because it is a computer is illogical. The problem comes, as mentioned, when people use the pc as a web surfer, which is where 99.99999% of all viruses come from. So keep your lighting pc away from the interwebs, maintain it as you would any other piece of electronics, and you'll be fine."

As long a your basically responsible with the computer is just as stable as almost any console

-Chris

 

[gafftaper]

One other critical point that has been touched on but not addressed in detail. If you are doing shows that are all designed and preprogrammed a PC control system is great. However if you are doing shows where you like to load everything onto submasters and just sort of bring a couple up, take a couple down, a little this and a little that... computer control is a nightmare. You can only click on one virtual submaster at a time. A multi-fader cross fade that you do so elegantly by just grabbing a bunch of handles with two hands simply can't be done on a computer. You have to program that fade on the computer and it takes time to do that. I can't stress enough how frustrating to operate and how choppy looking a quick thrown together show run on submasters looks. If that's the kind of shows you tend to do then don't consider PC control another moment. I would take Ebay's worst Chinese knock off no name console any day of the week if I was expected to work all the time with submasters.

 

[SanTai]

When seeing these threads of PC vs. Console, it always comes down to the faders and if you buy a wing it is not that cheap any longer, I keep thinking about the Bluelite X1.
DMX Controller | Lighting Controller | Stage Lighting | Theater Lighting | Architectural Lighting: Innovate Show Controls
I have not tried it and it looks like the work on it have stopped or at least slowed down, however it accepts DMX-in and MIDI without extra cost and a buying a small board with no features more than it sends dmx if you move a fader cost almost nothing. It also has support for LTC(which is what got me intressted).

I just thought I should throw it out there when discussing cheap PC control.
Have anyone tried this? Is it as good as it sounds for 400 USD?

EDIT:
I see now that it sounds that I am trying to sell this product. I have got no connection to the company and I have NOT tested the product. I do not know if it is good or bad. I am just curios about it and why it does not get any attention, since it looks like the thing that everyone is looking for.

 

[bigtim]

Hello CB!

We are looking into getting a lighting system for our small community theater. This is a brand new setup with no equipment right now. We have considered PC Software such as Lightfactory ($$) or MaqicQ (free!).

Then we are also looking at getting a small console that is affordable (read: under $500). Our total budget is around $2500. If we go the PC route, we have a dedicated desktop and monitor already that we could use.

We are thinking of using mostly PARs, some LEDs, and a couple of LEKOs basically to start. Nothing too fancy.

Inputs and Opinions on PC vs Console? If you suggest console, please share which console you suggest in our price range. Thank you.

Magnolia

While I'm not as experienced as most of the folks on CB, I do have a fair amount of knowledge in running lights in small community theater environments (currently 2 of them) where there is little money and even less interest in spending it on the tech side of things ("gaff tape? what's gaff tape?"). I have recently started using BlueLite, a PC based lighting control system that is, for the money ($399), so far past anything I've used in a stand alone board that there's not even any comparison. The software is free, can be installed on as many computers as you want, and is very stable. Oh yeah, and if you need/want to use a DMX board, it can easily be 'slaved' to the BlueLite controller for specials, etc. I'll admit, there is a learning curve, but 5 other schools and theaters in my area have gotten it, too and with a little help, they're up and running. I love it and will be glad to get you more info if you want to PM me.

 

[gcpsoundlight]

I would reccomend the console route. Event though the software and dongle may be cheaper, having physical faders to push is a better option.
I would reccomend the LSC Maxim series. Powerful, rugged and flexible.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-38.385704,144.840116

 

[AhClem]

Being the manufacturer and distributor for the BlueLite X1 (Light In Motion Show Control ), I definitely have a bias.
You can download our BlueLite X1 software for free from our website and explore its capabilities.

That being said, I also have a somewhat "dinosauar" attitude that cause me to want the hardware buttons and faders under my fingers for control.
The BlueLite X1 offers both a cost effective software based DMX control system that has the ability to control up to 16 DMX Universes (8192 channels - more if you're using Art Net) as well as supporting the use of an external DMX console for control.
Fixture templates to control any DMX fixture from a simple PAR can, ellipsoidal, smoke machine, dimmer packs/racks to complex moving fixtures or any other DMX controlled system including Media Servers are either availble or can be created.

The X1-Mini hardware supports a single DMX Universe output, while the full X1 provides 4 Universes of DMX Out.
Both the X1 and the X1-Mini also feature a DMX Input jack that allows you connect an external DMX console to use as a controller. I had been performing Laserium shows a few years ago back in Hollywood where I'd been using the BlueLite X1 both as a Laser Projector controller running off a SMPTE timecode track for the Laserium shows and also as a lighting (LED's PAR's and four MAC 250's) and laser controller for live performances by bands, CD premier parties and vocal student perfomances. Depending on what was available to me, I've used a Lepruchan LM-850, an ETC Smartfade 96 and a low cost Chauvet console as external controls.

One of the advantages is, you can control everything using the BlueLite software and then add an external console as your budget allows. While a higher cost console usually gives you better quality buttons and faders that can endure the day to day punishment better than the low end units, using the BlueLite you can purchase a more modest console without sacrificing features, giving you the best of both worlds and allowing you to save money for more lights.

I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have so feel free to contact me.

Craig
User Evangelist
[email protected]