Problems setting up an I-Cue

[Jinglish]

My school just picked up an I-Cue today for a show that's opening Friday night, but I can't get it to work quite yet. I plugged it into our board and set it up this evening, but I can't control pan and tilt (except for manual control on the unit). Here's the situation:

• It seems that the rental house only included one 4-pin DMX cable, so I have a power-supply-to-unit cable but not a return.
• We're running the line over 3-pin DMX with a 3-to-5-pin adaptor at the end; I used a mix cable instead of our homerun for setup because I didn't feel like hauling the I-Cue, S4, and lighting tree backstage.
• We have no terminator on this run, and the setup for the show will be using two hundred feet of cable. Is a terminator absolutely necessary?
• The board is an Innovator 24/48, and I put the mirror on DMX channel 15, with 15 controlling pan and 16 controlling tilt. Couldn't get any mirror control from the board. (Fun fact: the board changed my submasters while I was trying to configure the I-Cue. <_< )

So what do I need to fix? I'm guessing it's because we don't have the return cable, but I'm not sure and won't be able to test that until tomorrow evening.

 

[dcollins]

First of all - terminators and return lines are mutually exclusive. You should use one, and a terminator is easier, but you can't use both.

Have you tried the following:

Connect your board's DMX512 output (port A or universe A if your board has more than one DMX out) to the power supply using a short 5-pin cable. Plug the power supply into the wall, and connect the power supply's DMX 4pin output to the scroller's input. Check the scroller's DMX channel, confirm that that DMX channel is softpatched to the channel on the board that you're using, and then change that channel.

If that doesn't work, then either:
Your board isn't actually changing the channel's level
Your board is outputting that channel's level to a different DMX channel
The power supply is not operating correctly
The I-cue is not configured correctly or is broken

If that does work, then go step by step to the configuration you want it to work in and find out what makes it stop working.

You didn't mention whether you're using a DMX splitter or a passthrough somewhere. How does the DMX signal get from the board to the power supply and to the dimmer rack? Note that if you're using two different outputs on the board, you need to somehow specify that you want the first or second 'universe'.

 

[xander]

We can help you much more efficiently and effectively if you give us more specifics. Such as, what is the make and model of the power supply? Is there a splitter in the run? Are you going straight from the back of the board to the PSU or is there other equipment in the daisy chain? Which universe are you using? Have you read the I-Cue user manual and are sure you have the unit configured correctly?

 

[Jinglish]

No splitters or daisy-chaining. The dimmers are on universe/port A, while the I-Cue is in the 3-pin port and on universe C. It's assigned to address 15 because I have two RoboScan 812's in the board in 1 and 7, but those aren't connected at the moment; the power supply (which appears to be the basic Rosco 50 W supply) and the I-Cue were the only things I had hooked up today. I'm pretty sure I have it configured correctly; the mirror's in 8-bit mode, and I configured one channel each for pan and tilt in the I-Cue fixture profile I created on the Innovator. Sadly, I don't have any short 5-pin cables around to test; all we have are 3-pin mic cables and two 100' lengths of 3-pin DMX.

 

[xander]

Sadly, I don't have any short 5-pin cables around to test; all we have are 3-pin mic cables and two 100' lengths of 3-pin DMX.

Well, DO NOT use the mic cable. It doesn't matter if the cable is 100' for testing, just leave it coiled up and plug in the two ends. It sounds to me like an addressing problem. I have never used an Innovator so I don't know how the fixture patch works, but if you have the I-Cue in the 3rd universe, that could be what is giving you an issue. How is the universe set up? Is it outputting DMX 1025 - 1536? If so, you are looking at dimmers 1039 and 1040. If you can on the Innovator, don't use the fixture patch (just for troubleshooting purposes) and try to bring up those dimmers.

Let us know what you find out,
-Tim

 

[derekleffew]

First of all - terminators and return lines are mutually exclusive. You should use one, and a terminator is easier, but you can't use both. ...

Not exactly true. One needs a DMX Terminator (5pin) to terminate the line coming from the console at the power supply. If the power supply has the capability of a 4pin return line, one should use that also.

Oddly, the Rosco [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]PSU-50[/FONT] power supply has NO provision for either 5pin termination nor 4pin return line.

 

[Jinglish]

Derek: I was wrong; I have the PSU in my lap right now, and it's the 8-I-Cue model (PSU-08).

Xander: I'm pretty sure I'm addressing it correctly. The Innovator address by universe and channel; I've operated my RoboScans in channels 1-14 on universe C before.

If I keep running into trouble--particularly my console changing submasters--I might be able to borrow an ADJ console just to run the I-Cue from that... but that's a big might.

 

[dramatech]

Derek, the PSU50 type power supply is nothing more than a loptop type regulated power supply with a 24 VDC out, that powers a scroller on pins 1 and 4. The five pin DMX connections are sent directly to the same pins in the four pin connector.
This type of supply is designed to power around 2 devices at most. It is also assumed that it will be placed close to the device, that it is powering. Because of these assumed facts, there won't be enough power drop to require a return cable to the supply and that the DMX won't travel very far down the cable and therefore won't have a damaging reflection.
Now having said that , someone incorrectly using this type of supply with long cable runs or too much load will experience problems. The overload will shut down the supply, and if there is to be a long run of cable, then a terminator can be made by placing a 120 resistor accross pins 2 and 3 of a male four pin XLR, and plugging it in to the last device on the line.
I have made quite a few of these supplies and find them very useful for scrollers that are located on our far house booms. I always give such a chain of devices it's own run from a DMX iso/splitter. Never had a problem, but then my distances are short.

 

[MNBallet]

If I keep running into trouble--particularly my console changing submasters--I might be able to borrow an ADJ console just to run the I-Cue from that... but that's a big might.

What software are you running on? I had a problem with my Innovator changing sub masters on me two years ago. It also swapped a few subs with cues. It turned out I had a corrupted file in my base theater patch disk I was using, so all my files were corrupt. It turned out the wesite did not list the current upgrade for the boards software. Once I upgraded the software and recreated my base patch disk, all problems went away.

Are you trying to use submasters or your trackball to controll it? Are you patched directly from the patch page, or did you patch it from the device page?

Kenneth Pogin
Production / Tour Manager
Minnesota Ballet

 

[dcollins]

Not exactly true. One needs a DMX Terminator (5pin) to terminate the line coming from the console at the power supply. If the power supply has the capability of a 4pin return line, one should use that also.

Oddly, the Rosco [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]PSU-50[/FONT] power supply has NO provision for either 5pin termination nor 4pin return line.

I was referring only to the 4-pin run, which can be either terminated or returned. The 5-pin run can either be terminated or daisy chained to the next fixture.