Control/Dimming Profiles / Personalites / Libraries

[kevinrichie]

Hi,

To any who can help, I offer a big thank you! I am looking for a resource to find fixture libraries (personalities/profiles). I would think the manufactures of either the consoles or the fixtures would have a resource, but maybe that just means I need to create a depository for them. If no one knows of a good place to look, please tell me if you'd be interested and if you would use a resource like this. Maybe my hunt will lead to the creation of something we could all benefit from.

Thanks,

Kevin

 

[xander]

Generally speaking the desk manufaturer supplies the personalities. What desk do you have and what fixture(s) are you looking for?

-Tim

 

[starksk]

Are you looking to create a repository of fixture definitions that are used by each fixture manufacturer for use on multiple consoles? Or are you looking for a list of fixtures included by each console manufacturer?

Alternately, are you looking to create these profiles for the above manufacturers?

If you are looking for a specific fixture profile, the best place to start is usually the website of the manufacturer of the console that you are using. Some fixture manufacturers keep a repository of their fixture definitions for each console, but it has become more popular for the definitions to either be included by the console manufacturer on the desk, or to just post the DMX attributes used by the fixture to allow the user to create their own profile.

There are some companies out there that create fixture definitions that are used by many manufacturers. The most commonly used fixture definitions (when not written by the console manufacturers) come from Carallon. These companies use several methods to create their definitions including testing with actual fixtures.

As xander posted, if you are looking for a specific definition, let us know what console and which fixture (including mode, if applicable) and we can point you to the right direction.

___________________

~Kirk

 

[kevinrichie]

I wasn't look for a specific definition or personality at the moment. I was looking to bookmark a good place to go and get them. I know the Manufactures usually have them, but sometimes they're not as up on it as it seems they should be. I have had wonderful experiences with ETC being able to get me a personality in a day or so. I was thinking of maybe starting a site that would be a good industry resource for grabbing these personalities for as many different consoles as possible. But, if it already exists, I don't want to step on any toes or waste time. So I was asking to find out if anyone knew of a library of personalities I guess. I hope that was clear... should be at least as clear as a good frost

Thanks,

techietx
Austin, TX
IA 205

 

[JChenault]

Not trying to rain on your parade but ...
I have to ask "What business problem are you trying to solve ?"

A fixture uses DMX channels in some way which is defined by the manufacturer. A console manufacturer takes these fixture attributes and creates personalities for the fixture. There is not a standard way of writing profiles - each one is a specialized file produced by the console manufacturer that only works on his console.

Each manufacturer maintains ( or should maintain ) a website or way to easily get new profiles.

If this is the case, why would I ( as an end user ) go to your repository? It will not be as complete as the manufacturers ( those things can get updated frequently).

Now if you are trying to solve the problem of 'Fly By Night console manufacturer has gone out of business, where can their customers go to find old profiles? ' - a separate repository might be useful. Other than that I don't see the business need ( unless I am missing something)


Caralion does not make profiles in the sense that you are using the term. They maintain a database of information about fixtures that can be used by a console manufacturer. This includes everything the fixture manufacture supplies, and a lot more. IE they get in fixtures, test and analyze them, and put the data in their database. This frees the console manufacturer from having to get one of every fixture, and doing his own analysis of how the thing works. I once looked at some of Caralion's data and it is not intended to be directly used by a console ( and such use would likely violate their agreement with the console manufactuere as they are a subscription service. My memory is they charge around $30K a year for their data .

 

[kevinrichie]

"Not trying to rain on your parade but ...
I have to ask "What business problem are you trying to solve ?""

As a person who comes across many different intelligent fixtures and many different consoles, it seems I have often run into needing to create my own fixture in a consoles fixture library. Most recently, I was trying to demo an Elation Event Panel on an ETC Element console. Neither ETC or Elation had the profile to just download and add to the library. I have had this problem before as well. It seems the "big guys" V*L, Martin, HES, Robe, Color Kinetics, etc... all have fairly good profiles pre-loaded, but what happens if you inadvertently wipe your console or your new upgraded console doesn't have the profile for that old Robo Scan you still use? The idea for a single repository rather than having to go the manufacturers (console or fixture) site was just in the interest of time. It never fails that when you realize you need that profile is at the most inconvenient time.

"Each manufacturer maintains ( or should maintain ) a website or way to easily get new profiles."

While I agree with this statement completely, I have not found it to be true. I feel there is good support out there for the "big guys" but not for much of the other intelligent devices being created.

"If this is the case, why would I ( as an end user ) go to your repository? It will not be as complete as the manufacturers ( those things can get updated frequently). "

If I, or anyone, were to setup a repository like this, I would hope we would work with the manufacturers and have them uploading their latest to us as well as their own site (if they have a place on their site). The ultimate goal here is a single resource for our industry. If you always use ETC and you know exactly where to go to the a personality or you know how to use the personality editor to create one yourself, that's great... but what happens when someone brings in a Wholehog and wants to use your intelligent fixtures. You'll have to go find all those personalities. This could mean quite a bit of searching on a site your not as familiar with or your stuck with creating a personality on a console your not as familiar with. If there were one place to go, it seems that might be a better solution.

I appreciate the feedback, it makes me question what I was really talking about. In my world, I feel this type of a repository would be helpful, but I know in this industry, many peoples worlds are different. I'm not thinking this would be a side business or anything like that, just a useful tool for us lighting folks. I believe the content would come from the users, in addition to the manufacturers, much like it does here at CB. I have, as I'm sure many people have, a folder on my computer with many different manuals and personalities, I even have a chart I made (probably out of date now) of which fixtures took which lamps.

-techietx
Austin, TX
IA 205

 

[derekleffew]

Sorry if we're appearing negative, [MENTION=2505]techietx[/MENTION]. To steal an old cliche, "greater men than you have tried and failed." There used to be a site, Red Monkey, or Focus Monkey, or something like that, that tried what you are proposing. This was ten or so years ago, before there were so many brands of movers and consoles, and before manufacturers started their own community forums. The site couldn't keep current then, and I see no way for one person, or even a group, to stay current now. Say someone visits your site looking for a profile for an XYZ moving light in mode 7 for the ABC console, and you don't have it.
What do you advise?
1. Visit ABC's site to see if it's there.
2. Visit XYZ's site to see if they might have it.
3. Suggest the user create the personality themselves, often using separate "Library Generator" software.

Note that as more consoles adopt an Abstract Control Model, using real world, instead of arbitrary DMX, values, it becomes increasingly difficult to write one's own personality without a) an actual fixture, and b) sophisticated testing equipment.

I wonder if there would be any copyright or intellectual property issues, or if any manufacturer would outright tell you, "We don't wish to be included on your site. We'd rather users come directly to us for support for our consoles/fixtures."

Again, sorry for the rain on your parade. Go for it. If you're not discouraged yet, you might just have what it takes to make it a success.

 

[JD]

It is a shame that a universal format has not been established yet. Fixture profiles are a series of name/value pairs in a file. ( attribute = data string ) The problem is each board uses a different text string to call out what attributes are, and a different data string to provide information. Some files are text, others are compressed code imbeds. If such a standard were developed, then the fixture manufacturer would publish the file and not the board manufacturer. As we see with the Hog II, depending on the board manufacturer has its risks. Maybe someday...

 

[kevinrichie]

I have not been taking anything her as negative. I believe that having a devil's advocate style discussion only leads to better things in the end. Additionally, I learned a long time ago - nothing on stage is personal, it's all about getting the job done well. I appreciate all the input.

I do agree the ability to keep the site up to date would be a daunting task and one that would require more than just me doing. This all came about by my frustration one day trying to find a ML personality quickly, and discovering that neither the fixture manufacturer or console manufacturer had one.

Thanks again for your input.

-techietx