Conventional Fixtures Solutions for a 220v Fresnel Tungsten on a 110v system where 220v is not available.

[shredwater]

Looking for a solution to a fresnel light problem. Due to budget we bought one of these to use on a low budget short film here in the US: Fresnel Tungsten Video Continuous Lighting 2000W as ARRI Pro Video Kit New | eBay

After purchasing we found out at a few of the locations we would not have access to a 220v power source. So my question is what would be brighter or a better solution? To purchase a step-up transformer to use at the 110v locations or buy a 2000w 110v bulb and swap out the 2000w 220v bulb if that is even possible? I've read running a 220v bulb on a 110v power source would make the bulb really dim and also have read using a step-up transformer wouldn't make it much brighter, is this correct? Any other solutions?

I'm no electrical expert so forgive the noob question. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for any replies in advance.

 

[TimMiller]

Re: Solutions for a 220v Fresnel Tungsten on a 110v system where 220v is not availabl

First thing I would see is if there is a 120v bulb, that is the cheapest solution. 2nd you could use a step up transformer but keep in mind 2000 watts is pushing the capacity of a 20 amp circuit so you would have to keep the runs short and use 12 or 10 guage extension cords. Also electricians can get 220 out of panels there is no such thing as a strictly 120v panel.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Re: Solutions for a 220v Fresnel Tungsten on a 110v system where 220v is not availabl

Chinese ARRI knock offs!

Not sure what socket type it has but it's possible there are 120v lamps that will fit it. My guess is there is, since 2K can be powered easily enough from a 120v 20amp circuit. My guess it it's labeled 220v because thats the power in the country where it is made.

 

[cbrandt]

Re: Solutions for a 220v Fresnel Tungsten on a 110v system where 220v is not availabl

My 2k fresnels all have optional 1k lamps as well, and are all 120v, but mine are altmans, not ARRIs.

 

[shredwater]

Re: Solutions for a 220v Fresnel Tungsten on a 110v system where 220v is not availabl

Thanks for the reply, I'll give the bulb a try first. Absolutely agree on the electricians running a 220 it would all be a matter of budget on getting them out there to add it and if the location would be willing to let us tamper with their electrical box so I don't see that being a realistic option for this shoot as there will be multiple locations. Am I correct to assume from your reply that a 2000w 120v bulb will be brighter on the 110v circuit vs a 2000w 220v bulb on a 110v circuit?

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Re: Solutions for a 220v Fresnel Tungsten on a 110v system where 220v is not availabl

Thanks for the reply, I'll give the bulb a try first. Absolutely agree on the electricians running a 220 it would all be a matter of budget on getting them out there to add it and if the location would be willing to let us tamper with their electrical box so I don't see that being a realistic option for this shoot as there will be multiple locations. Am I correct to assume from your reply that a 2000w 120v bulb will be brighter on the 110v circuit vs a 2000w 220v bulb on a 110v circuit?

A 220v lamp run off of a 110v circuit is going to be even half as bright as if it was run on 220v. Doesn't matter what wattage.

cbrant was talking about lamp wattage, not voltage. If he can get 1K and 2K lamps with the same base, then chances are good that one could get 220v and 120v lamps with the same base contacts.

If there was a way to find literature/a manufacturer for this Fresnel, and thus know what socket it has, we could tell you what lamp you would need. Nothing really makes these Fresnels special for use with 220v except for their lamps and whatever ratings/certifications they may or may not have.

 

[shredwater]

Re: Solutions for a 220v Fresnel Tungsten on a 110v system where 220v is not availabl

Yes ARRI knock offs for sure Looks like its a round two pronged plug from what I can tell from the ebay photo. I don't mind switching out plug/cords or bulbs I just want to see how to get the maximum brightness off of a 120v system with this light. Thanks again for all of your replies.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Re: Solutions for a 220v Fresnel Tungsten on a 110v system where 220v is not availabl

Yes ARRI knock offs for sure Looks like its a round two pronged plug from what I can tell from the ebay photo. I don't mind switching out plug/cords or bulbs I just want to see how to get the maximum brightness off of a 120v system with this light. Thanks again for all of your replies.

Well for max brightness you will need to find a 2000 watt 120v lamp that fits whatever socket those have, a 20 amp connector of your choice(Bates, 5-20 Edison or L5-20 Twist) and a 20 amp circuit to power it off of.

 

[shredwater]

Re: Solutions for a 220v Fresnel Tungsten on a 110v system where 220v is not availabl

A 220v lamp run off of a 110v circuit is going to be even half as bright as if it was run on 220v. Doesn't matter what wattage.

cbrant was talking about lamp wattage, not voltage. If he can get 1K and 2K lamps with the same base, then chances are good that one could get 220v and 120v lamps with the same base contacts.

If there was a way to find literature/a manufacturer for this Fresnel, and thus know what socket it has, we could tell you what lamp you would need. Nothing really makes these Fresnels special for use with 220v except for their lamps and whatever ratings/certifications they may or may not have.

Looks like they are JIETU FRESNEL DTW-2000W. Can't really find any specific documentation so not sure if that helps at all.

 

[shredwater]

Re: Solutions for a 220v Fresnel Tungsten on a 110v system where 220v is not availabl

Well for max brightness you will need to find a 2000 watt 120v lamp that fits whatever socket those have, a 20 amp connector of your choice(Bates, 5-20 Edison or L5-20 Twist) and a 20 amp circuit to power it off of.

Got it, I found some actual specs not sure if this helps: Bulb it comes with 2000w CP37, BP or 2000w CP41, MP. Base is G38.

 

[shredwater]

Re: Solutions for a 220v Fresnel Tungsten on a 110v system where 220v is not availabl

You guys have been great, guess the bulb it is. For any one looking for the same thing here is a great comparison video and he ends up changing the bulb. Pro As Arri 650W Light vs. Arri 650W Light on Vimeo Thanks again for all of your help.

 

[derekleffew]

Re: Solutions for a 220v Fresnel Tungsten on a 110v system where 220v is not availabl

[EDIT: I started writing this after post#5. It took some time to find the lamp specs and do the math.]

... Am I correct to assume from your reply that a 2000w 120v bulb will be brighter on the 110v circuit vs a 2000w 220v bulb on a 110v circuit?

A "2000w 220v [230V FKK, see below] bulb on a 110v circuit"
will be approximately 10.4% as bright as
a "2000w 120v [120V CYX, see below] bulb on a 110v circuit."
Stated the other way, the CYX will be 9.7 times brighter than the FKK.

Take for example two specific lamps (these may not be the correct lamps for your fixture, although I highly suspect they are)

The Sylvania FKK (CP/73) Lamp (2,000W/230V) is a quartz halogen bulb with a color temperature of 3,200K, a G38 lamp base and an average life of 400 hours. It is commonly used in 2,000 watt Fresnel fixtures. Lumens 52,000.

When supplied with 110V, lumen output is 4,235.

OSRAM SYLVANIA CYX 2000w 120v G38 Mogul Halogen light Bulb, with a color temperature of 3,200K, a G38 lamp base and an average life of 300 hours. Lumens 55,000.

When supplied with 110V, lumen output is 40,915.

From the wiki entry Mathematical Formulas for Lighting - ControlBooth , the applicable formula is

lumens/LUMENS = (VOLTS/volts)^3.4

-----
One thing that concerns me is the specifications on the eBay link state

Comes with Dimmer, power cord 200cm

I suspect this is untrue. If it IS true and is an EXTERNAL dimmer, simply don't use it when connecting the fixture (equipped with 120V lamp) to a non-220V supply. If it IS an INTERNAL electronic dimmer, the fixture cannot use a 120V lamp, and cannot be connected to anything other than a 220-230V supply.

 

[shredwater]

Re: Solutions for a 220v Fresnel Tungsten on a 110v system where 220v is not availabl

[EDIT: I started writing this after post#5. It took some time to find the lamp specs and do the math.]

A "2000w 220v [230V FKK, see below] bulb on a 110v circuit"
will be approximately 10.4% as bright as
a "2000w 120v [120V CYX, see below] bulb on a 110v circuit."

Take for example two specific lamps (these may not be the correct lamps for your fixture, although I highly suspect they are)
When supplied with 110V, lumen output is 4,235.

When supplied with 110V, lumen output is 40,915.

From the wiki entry Mathematical Formulas for Lighting - ControlBooth , the applicable formula is


-----
One thing that concerns me is the specifications on the eBay link state I suspect this is untrue. If it IS true and is an EXTERNAL dimmer, simply don't use it when connecting the fixture (equipped with 120V lamp) to a non-220V supply. If it IS an INTERNAL electronic dimmer, the fixture cannot use a 120V lamp, and cannot be connected to anything other than a 220-230V supply.

Awesome, great info and makes total sense. I'll double check the dimmer when it gets here but I'm assuming by dimmer they mean the on and off switch on the cord. I haven't seen any with a dimmer inside while doing any research but then again who knows what it will have when I open the box. Thanks again for the great info.

 

[n1ist]

Re: Solutions for a 220v Fresnel Tungsten on a 110v system where 220v is not availabl

Looking at the pictures on eBay, there's an in-line slide dimmer on the cord. It's unlikely that the dimmer (and the cord) will handle the double current draw of a 2K 120V lamp. So the options are either using a transformer, getting a 220v circuit pulled (depending on your facility, may be 208V with the associated drop in wattage and color temperature), or rewiring it entirely (removing the cord and dimmer) and connecting it to your dimmer packs.

Do NOT consider making a cable with two male plugs to get 220v from two different circuits - that's against NEC and can be lethal.
/mike

 

[DrPinto]

Re: Solutions for a 220v Fresnel Tungsten on a 110v system where 220v is not availabl

It's unlikely that the dimmer (and the cord) will handle the double current draw of a 2K 120V lamp.

Really good point. If you were running this on 240 volts, it would be drawing 8.3 amps. Using the same wattage lamp on 120 volts would draw 16.7 amps. Double what the dimmer (looks more like an on/off switch), line cord, and socket was designed for.

To be safe, I would either use it on 240 volts or send it back to China.

Another option is to use a 1000 watt lamp at 120 volts.

 

[shredwater]

Re: Solutions for a 220v Fresnel Tungsten on a 110v system where 220v is not availabl

Looking at the pictures on eBay, there's an in-line slide dimmer on the cord. It's unlikely that the dimmer (and the cord) will handle the double current draw of a 2K 120V lamp. So the options are either using a transformer, getting a 220v circuit pulled (depending on your facility, may be 208V with the associated drop in wattage and color temperature), or rewiring it entirely (removing the cord and dimmer) and connecting it to your dimmer packs.

Do NOT consider making a cable with two male plugs to get 220v from two different circuits - that's against NEC and can be lethal.
/mike

Gotcha, on the cord I'm not seeing a slide dimmer all I see is the red on off switch is this what you are referring to? If so I'll change the cord out for sure once I get it. On some other posts on the web looks like its just an on off and nothing that slides but again who knows what they added coming from china. Thanks for your reply.

 

[derekleffew]

Re: Solutions for a 220v Fresnel Tungsten on a 110v system where 220v is not availabl

... Another option is to use a 1000 watt lamp at 120 volts.

Really good point. That would be the CYV 1000W 120V lamp. About half as bright as the CYX or FKK.

shredwater, you mentioned using this fixture for a "shoot." Would that be a still, or video, shoot? In either case, the 2K lamp providing about 55,000 lumens is a lot of light!
This site shows 2740 lux (~255 F.C.) at mid focus at 5m.

The 1000W CYV would provide ~130 F.C. at the same focus and distance.

Also very good point above about checking the size of the wiring before using a 2000W 120V lamp. For the same wattage, using double the voltage allows the wiring to be half as thick.
1000W @ 120V (or 2000W @ 240V), 8.3A, would require AWG 18.
2000W @ 1200V, 16.6A would require AWG 12.

A reputable manufacturer (e.g., ARRI) will use the largest wire for lowest voltage for which the fixture is listed, by NRTL. Unknown whether JieTu (link to long discussion on another forum) follows the same practice. I hope you weren't planning to use this fixture in Los Angeles.

 

[shredwater]

Re: Solutions for a 220v Fresnel Tungsten on a 110v system where 220v is not availabl

Really good point. That would be the CYV lamp.

shredwater, you mentioned using this fixture for a "shoot." Would that be a still, or video, shoot? In either case, the 2K lamp providing about 55,000 lumens is a lot of light!
This site shows 2740 lux (~255 F.C.) at mid focus at 5m.

The 1000W CYV would provide ~130 F.C. at the same focus and distance.

It would be for video, we'd use a lower watt light if we needed less light. We have some situations where we will need to use a higher fstop due too some steadicam or dolly movement, possibly outside at night. I'd rather have to much light and be able to diffuse or use a lower wattage (650 or less) light all together than have too little light and have to change iso or fstop settings and loose that versatility of being able to use that higher fstop. We could pull focus but don't want the fstop to be so low you only have a few inches to work with. Again depends on the shot but 2k would be great to get out of this light if we needed it while shooting. Again I'm going to look at this dimmer deal when it gets here I'm hoping its just an on off switch and no slider.

 

[derekleffew]

Re: Solutions for a 220v Fresnel Tungsten on a 110v system where 220v is not availabl

...Again I'm going to look at this dimmer deal when it gets here I'm hoping its just an on off switch and no slider.

Also let us know what, if anything, is printed on the whip, so we can translate to AWG to see if it's safe for 2000W 120V or not.

 

[shredwater]

Re: Solutions for a 220v Fresnel Tungsten on a 110v system where 220v is not availabl

Also let us know what, if anything, is printed on the whip, so we can translate to AWG to see if it's safe for 2000W 120V or not.

Will do for sure, thanks!