Sound Computer Suggestions

[Sylak]

I'm working in a university auditorium (run by ITS) and want the opinion of some more sound-oriented people.
Currently we've got a left over budget for the space, that needs to be used or else we'll lose it for next year. Currently, we do student club performances, faculty booked lectures, and university events. what i'm looking to do is put a computer in the booth that we can use to just make it easier for student groups to connect their iPods to, or drag and drop music/videos to play onto, but at the same time have cuing software for more advanced things done in the space. Over in out Theatre Department space we have a mac running QLab to do this, but that's not a configuration i am looking for here.
I was wondering what kind of computer you guys could come up with in the following restraints, including buying a stock computer and adding PCI or PCIe cards. Windows based PC, 2 Video outputs, at least one Stereo out two preferred, a MIDI interface from the sound card (preferable not a USB dongle), and Show Cue System Pro (not plus, at $139), under or around $2,000

Thank you for your help in advance

 

[MisterTim]

There's about 17,398 options you could have here. Any semi-powerful computer will suffice, just make sure it has a PCI-Express so you can put a video card in. In general any video card over $30 can handle dual monitors. Add a good audio interface that handles MIDI (Something like a Presonus Audiobox; shouldn't need any more than $200 for your small uses) and you're set.

Budgeting $100 for a decent video card and $20 for a firewire card, that leaves you with $1680 to buy a good computer.

Edit: if all you need is 1/8" minijack stereo outs, every desktop computer I've seen in recent years gives you at least 3 jacks, all of which are switchable between line in, mic in, and line out.

 

[museav]

Many Universities I work with have some pretty strict policies regarding University owned computers, especially any that connect to their network(s). And most have contracts already in place for purchasing computer equipment. You might want to see if any of that applies.

I think the general consensus is typically to use a separate FireWire or USB audio interface, there are many options but when making a choice consider if you want to be able to handle multichannel playback for effects rather than just stereo.

The comments about students connecting iPods to transfer music and video files also stuck out. Is there any reason you can't just provide a direct input into the system for iPods? Since connecting them to the computer seems to involve creating copies of the related files on the computer, you might want to check on any potential copyright or file sharing issues involved.

 

[DaveySimps]

The comments about students connecting iPods to transfer music and video files also stuck out. Is there any reason you can't just provide a direct input into the system for iPods? Since connecting them to the computer seems to involve creating copies of the related files on the computer, you might want to check on any potential copyright or file sharing issues involved.

I agree with Brad here. Some sort of input into your sound system would seem more appropriate for your ipod needs. I also second the idea of a fire wire base sound card. M-Audio and Echo Audio Fire cards are a good place to start in that department.

I built a new system last year for a dedicated SFX playback System, and I just got an off the shelf HP desktop, nice monitor, and 8 channel audiofire sound card and that has served me very well. Even after the cost of a external sound card, mount for the tower, software, and proper cabling, I think I came in under $2,000. There are many many options.

~Dave

 

[Sylak]

The venue is currently only set up for a stereo system, so an 8-channel sound card is overkill. Again, this is an auditorium more or less for student/non-theatre faculty use. The other reason I want a sound card that is built in is to minimize things that can be stolen, lost, or misplaced (a visiting artist walked off with a microphone last month, and student groups sometimes walk off with "small" things they think won't be noticed).

As to address the iPod input, although we currently have a system like that, with the computer there's the choice of running via iTunes or at least charging the iPod on the computer while using the 1/8" jack.

Many of the problems that have arrived in the last year are burned CDs where they were mis-burned as an MP3 CD, and the CD Player is too old to handle that, plus the DVDR is not able to play back MP3 CD's. Hence, the idea of if that happens there is the ability to copy the music files, and a computer can easily be cleared after especially if the folder permissions are set to limit where files can be saved.

The reason why i do not want to buy via ITS, is that our university has a 3-year lending program for computers, hence a computer would be returned after that time, and I want a "single-user" configuration that would limit software changes (instead of the domain login which gives users administrator access) as well as not connect it to the network in general.

 

[gcpsoundlight]

Simple yet Controversial Answer: Mac!

 

[Chris15]

Simple yet Controversial Answer: Mac!

But the OP has specified Windows, so suggesting a Mac takes us nowhere forward...

 

[gcpsoundlight]

Dual Boot it?

 

[Morpheus]

You say you don't want a mac with qlab- Why not? It should be able to do what you want...

As far as connecting the iPod to the computer... I'd suggest against it.
One wxample of why not is for a recent dance concert, they tried to pull the song from an iPod... except the computer was set to cync to iPod... so as so as the cable was plugged in, it started wiping the iPod... bye bye song

if your CD player is old, maybe a cheaper solution would be to upgrade that instead. Also, by accepting iPods as audio source, you are now responsible for the iPod as long as it's in the booth... personally, i'd rather they give me cd's.

 

[achstechdirector]

I agree with the ipod statement made by Morpheus, I have had 3 iPods stolen in our theatres, even though I knew who did and promptly kicked him out, I made a policy that all audio had to be given to me on CD's. A new concept that I have really liked was that we purchased a CD player that you could also load stuff off of a hard drive. I would have the theatre front office put the files on a theatre flash drive and then run the show from it and then format the flash drive. Just an interesting thought... Anyways, I think that a computer for under 2000 is very reasonable, a local theatre just got one for right at 1700 so I know it can be done. It is a windows computer that we bought refurbished and then we bought an external sound card and put Virtual DJ on it, it works great. I am a big fan of Virtual DJ, it works really well in all but a couple of my events

 

[themuzicman]

What exactly is wrong with the Mac + QLab setup? If you could explain why that system is not adequate we can form a better opinion on the matter.

And even though you're not looking at a Mac, I'd recommend either an iMac or Mac Mini for the computer, QLab + Midi and Video license for playback (educational facilities get awesome licensing discounts) and a Roland Edirol FA-66. You get 6 channels of input (2 XLR/TRS, 2 TOS-link, and 2 RCA), and 6 channels of Output (4 1/4" TS, 2 TOS-link), and 1 Midi In and 1 Midi Out.

This is my portable setup, and I route 2 inputs from QLab into the Edirol, run the midi in and midi out to the light board / Related Midi Items, and plug the iPod into the RCA ports and route it back to the output with Garageband (kind of a nasty fix, but it routes things just fine, I just set it to launch at startup into that profile).

------
That's what I'd use (because I do use it), but if you explain what's not cool about your system it'll be easier to help you out better!

 

[zuixro]

I have a strict policy of NO IPODS. NO EXCEPTIONS.

Lip syncing contest a few months ago. 15 minutes before the house opens, a group comes to me to ask to change their song (yeah really). They asked if I could play something off of an iPod. I said absolutely not.

Not only do I not want to be responsible for someone else's iPod, I have had them mess up too many times at basket ball game half times. The cheerleaders take just a little too long to get in place, the iPod has gone into standby, I'm not looking at it to see if it's up, I watch for the cheerleaders to be in place, hit play. Nothing happens. Hit play again. A bit of a pause before the song starts. I hit play again, pauses the track. Cheerleaders have a false start. Everyone stares. It's not pretty.

End of rant. Sorry for the hijack.

 

[NickVon]

and they are **** noisy if the battery is low and you need to plug them and run audio at the same time.

discovered this the other day.

 

[MisterTim]

and they are **** noisy if the battery is low and you need to plug them and run audio at the same time.

discovered this the other day.

... say what?

 

[blackhat]

Speaking as a University theater technician, digital audio is VERY much frowned upon by the legal departments because of the constant RIAA fears. At the University I work at, there is an easy policy: If it's not on the original disc from the recording company, then NO! No iPods, no burned discs, no flash drives. Recording even live performances involves so much paperwork just for the musicians, actors and singers to get copies of their OWN works that many don't even bother! It's a nightmare for University techs considering how simple it could be to record, playback or run a show when the legal eagles metamanage every resource you have. By policy I can't even plug my palm into my console for music while I do my hang before gigs because it's a 3rd party recording media.

As for the non-mac option, there are PLENTY of practical reasons: Equipment compatibility with other devices in the booth is one. Another huge concern is cost: You can get some venues to purchase an Acer Aspire Revo (not ideal I know... especially with an Atom 230 processor..) for only $199 NEW, while the cheapest mac mini will still run $600 without monitor. iMacs are large, equally more expensive, and have horrible reputations of not working on networks based off a windows system. We still have two shiny iMacs that the theater admin brought from their old department and not even IT can get them on the wireless network. Turns out it's an Apple issue, and they've strictly said they're not interested in finding a solution for the end consumer.

Another reason is ease of plug and play: If you're using the computer to also manage video elements, you have to be ready for the talent to bring in all sorts of strange machinery, projectors and hardware. I've had some corporate contracts at my venue bring in projectors so old, they had bright stickers still on them proclaiming their compatibility with Windows NT/2000! Also, I've noticed that the more University work you do, the more strange, China-riffic 3rd party hardware you end up seeing simply because it's cheap. It's far easier to get a windows system (especially windows 7) to simply accept whatever you shove in it's ports and make it function. Will it function as good as a Mac with Mac-specific made components certified by Steve Jobs himself? No. But, sometimes you *just* need it to work to get the gig to go. And, lastly there's a comfort factor: If the board op is comfy with Windows, by all means give the man windows! Best to make a stable environment for him/her to work instead of a cue going missing because of something stupid like minimizing the window for no good reason by accident.

 

[NickVon]

and they are **** noisy if the battery is low and you need to plug them and run audio at the same time.

discovered this the other day.

rst
maybe it's not all of them but this one was.

Fashion show type event. Asked them weeks out to bring me a audio CD and a cue sheet for when stuff gets played. Had one of there guys run the sound for day of the event after I found out 30 minutes before hand that they couldn't the CD they had burned. Did a quick sound check, set the ipod volume to about 25 % got a decent clean output to the house system despite the low quality audio on the device. Discovered the battery was near dead but the guy didn't have his charger cable. (Had it been any other audio device i have USB cables for everything, alas). 10 minutes before start someone else managed to find a cable that isn't the Ipod's owner's, and we plug it in.

Come back for start of the event, play the first track and there is crazy noise in the system. (i'm running lights now.) I move down to the sound position, check the headphone volume on the ipod, check all the settings on the board that haven't changed. After 2 minutes of listening to this hum behind the music, i look at the charger cable pull it out and magically it sound as good as it had 30 minutes earlier.

It wasn't a nano or shuffle. and it wasn't the OLD school HD version. I can't recall if it was a Touch, a iphone or Ipod of another vareity. (Yes, it was plugged into the audio system power. ) I like my Creative Lab Zen, another reason for me to stay away from Ipods

 

[TimmyP1955]

You either want a laptop that you can take home so you can work on stuff, or you want show software that gives you multiple licenses.

Requiring the use of original CDs is silly. The performer may have lawfully procured the music on line. And, the performer's purchase of the music does not grant him/her performance rights, so there is still an issue. (I think the purchaser does have the right to make an archival copy, so a burnt disc may be as OK as the real one.) Plus, it's a major PITA (on one show I had to play 20 tracks off of 18 CDs).