Stage general pickup
- Thread starterGrog12
- Start date
We've got 6 choir mics hanging from our electrics about 9' off the floor. I believe they are Crown CM 31's.
And I suppose you want/need to be able to make a gnat's fart sound like thunder too?
Yeah avare, I've used both PCC and PCM's in the space for general reinforcement in the past. The problem of course being the depth of the stage and losing people US of CC. The real problem comes not from the proffesional gigs that reside in the theatre but the HS Drama and Choir department. In the days previous to my employment they would "reinforce" the stage by putting every handheld they owned in front of the apron...
and I was worried about distant microphones for that same reason.
and I was worried about distant microphones for that same reason.
Ric
Active Member
What do you mean by this?
Are the dancers singing along to the backing music?
If so are you expecting to be able to hear them sing, their tapping feet or... what?
There are different possible solutions based on what you're looking for, but there's no one solution that will fit all.
More detailed information about the problem, and what your expectations are, would be really helpful.
Cheers,
Ric
BTW, it's law enforcement, audio reinforcement.
MarshallPope
Well-Known Member
Off topic, but this is what that statement brought to mind.
(Apologies for the sloppy 2-minute photoshopping)
What the Director says: "I want to hear everything on stage."
What the Director believes they said: "I want to hear everything on stage...but not the out of shape dancer wheezing or someone cussing or the out of tune singers or anything other than what I want to hear and I expect it to sound like everyone is close miked."
What the Director believes they said: "I want to hear everything on stage...but not the out of shape dancer wheezing or someone cussing or the out of tune singers or anything other than what I want to hear and I expect it to sound like everyone is close miked."
Quite honestly Ric you have the information. Its not for a particular show and its not for dance. Our venue is a multi use venue that caters primarily to dance, but we have plays, choirs, and bands performing here as well. The thoughts with the general reinforcement is for primrily the plays and choirs.
GoldPhoenix
Member
Ok, well sound for those various events are usually best when tailored to the specific task. Different types of microphones are used when their specific characteristics are called for. You have many options to set up mics for a "set it and forget it" type of hook up, here’s an idea I have that might work for you (with little modification for your venue).
One set up that I have done for a similar sized venue was a series of 7 hanging microphones. It uses a combo of hanging mics like this and goosenecks like this. Try three hanging mics hanging close to Electric 1 spaced with one the middle one dead center, and the other two about 10-11' from center. The second row has two more hanging mics, both spaced about 5' off center. The third row is the same as the second. Just space them (up/downstage) to cover as far back as you'll need. (I hung them close to the electrics, with the first row at E1 and the next one at E2 and the last near E3). The first row is hung about 9-10' off the deck. The second and third row is hung a foot higher than the first row. On your soundboard just pan the outer mics, have someone walk around on stage talking while you adjust the pan with headphones to make it sound natural.
If you need more coverage on the apron try using two of these spaced about 5' off center on the edge of the stage.
If your budget allows you can choose better microphones, but I wanted to focus on the type and placement of the mics more than names and models of mics.
It works well for what it is, you don't get too much floor noise, and I have used this set up for full bands, a chorus, and a few other events. I will always prefer to uses specific set ups for the particular event, but you won't be disappointed.
Good Luck!
Allan
One set up that I have done for a similar sized venue was a series of 7 hanging microphones. It uses a combo of hanging mics like this and goosenecks like this. Try three hanging mics hanging close to Electric 1 spaced with one the middle one dead center, and the other two about 10-11' from center. The second row has two more hanging mics, both spaced about 5' off center. The third row is the same as the second. Just space them (up/downstage) to cover as far back as you'll need. (I hung them close to the electrics, with the first row at E1 and the next one at E2 and the last near E3). The first row is hung about 9-10' off the deck. The second and third row is hung a foot higher than the first row. On your soundboard just pan the outer mics, have someone walk around on stage talking while you adjust the pan with headphones to make it sound natural.
If you need more coverage on the apron try using two of these spaced about 5' off center on the edge of the stage.
If your budget allows you can choose better microphones, but I wanted to focus on the type and placement of the mics more than names and models of mics.
It works well for what it is, you don't get too much floor noise, and I have used this set up for full bands, a chorus, and a few other events. I will always prefer to uses specific set ups for the particular event, but you won't be disappointed.
Good Luck!
Allan
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something but it seems like maybe something got mixed up regarding the stage dimensions and the suggested spacing. The stage is 47' wide so if the first row has one mic at center and one 10'-11' off center to either side while the second and third rows each have one mic 5' off center on each side, I'm not seeing how that covers a 47' wide stage. It would seem you'd need more like a 16' spacing or more for the first row and 20' or more for the second and third row in order to cover a 47' wide stage.
With the spacing suggested, then does having the first row of mics is 9'-10' off the deck and the second and third row at 10'-11' meet the 3:1 rule? With that height and the closer spacing it looks like you might be at 2:1 or less and thus phasing between mics could be an issue. Again, it seems that a wider spacing would be appropriate. I've also run into concerns on multiple occasions with hanging mics for general purpose use needing to be higher off the deck, either that or they need to be removed for many events. Is the 9'-10' height been any problem or do you tend to only hang the mics when they will be used?
There may be some of the same separation issues up and down stage. Unless there is some standard for how many Electrics you should have and/or where they should be located then I'm not sure what locations having them at E1, E2 and E3 represent, it might be better to reference a distance from the proscenium or something like that. However, three rows of mics on a 36' deep stage puts the mics probably 12' or so apart, thus with a 9'-10' height the 3:1 rule may also be a factor in that direction.
Finally, why do you suggest adjusting the panning in headphones? Maybe your speaker system does a great job of reproducing what you hear in headphones for your entire audience area but for most people their speaker system will have a significant impact on how what you hear in headphones translates to what the audience hears. And wouldn't you want to pan and mix based on what the audience hears?
Ric
Active Member
Ok, any general re-inforcement will give general results. If you want to hear specific things then you have to plan for it accordingly.
A single microphone will give general pickup. I'd place it on a stand in the middle of the stage. Any microphone will do.
Sorry for being facetious, it's just that it IS a complex topic, and specific cases are the only way to decide what may work for those situations. It may be possible that the 'solution' may work for a different situation, but certainly will not work for all.
Where I am, I have a single mic pointed at the stage from my FOH bridge. This feeds our show relay system, I'd consider that a general pickup, as you can hear everything on the stage, and is good enough for backstage monitoring. Theres no way I could feed that same signal to our FOH speakers as it would feed back straight away.
I have 3 Audio Technica AT853 choir mics spaced across a bar just upstage of our house curtain. (stage width 10 metres; approx 30 feet) I drop those in for choirs & quiet speaking, when the people are close to that section of the stage. If they're further upstage then a second set of mics can be set on another line, and again dropped in. I usually set them just above arms reach over their heads, but the closer the better.
That won't work for am individual dancers singing, with their music playing onto the stage, as the music is re-inforced as well, or for a musical with a band playing and performers singing. Individual mics and specific setups are needed for those.
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GoldPhoenix
Member
museav-
I should have spent a bit more time getting those numbers correct for the OP. I was working by memory and the venue I had in mind is slightly smaller, and i left out its size and distance between electrics. I'm sorry i caused more confusion. As far as the 3:1 rule, the chorus is on risers so the distance is slightly off there, again, working by memory. That was a bit of oversight on my part, but thank you for the correction.
grog12-
Take some time to plan out your mic layout, and adjust mic position and height after an event or two. You will realize what it is that works for your events and your venue.
~Allan
I should have spent a bit more time getting those numbers correct for the OP. I was working by memory and the venue I had in mind is slightly smaller, and i left out its size and distance between electrics. I'm sorry i caused more confusion. As far as the 3:1 rule, the chorus is on risers so the distance is slightly off there, again, working by memory. That was a bit of oversight on my part, but thank you for the correction.
grog12-
Take some time to plan out your mic layout, and adjust mic position and height after an event or two. You will realize what it is that works for your events and your venue.
~Allan
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