Strand Century Dimmy

[Scott S]

All the more reason to differentiate



No need to apologize. It just helps streamline troubleshooting and advice-giving when we're all on the same terminology. You've definitely come to the right place if you want to make this system work, or allow your existing dimmers to communicate with a DMX console.

I would like to get all the lights controlled one one board someday but I'm looking just to get the other dimmer channels that don't work on the Strand Century Dimmers for now and if I can not get the other 6 channels working then yes I would like to get them all on the LP612 but I believe there is some programing involved which I have not even looked into yet
The LP612 is running the LED lights now, 6 lights all linked with one cord, in the first then out to the second in the third etc.

 

[STEVETERRY]

Sometimes, old dimmer systems of marginal quality and features need to go to dimmer system Heaven--whether it's the dumpster or an environmentally-friendly recycling method.

The Century Dimmy is a leading candidate for that path, IMHO. It remains high on the list of truly awful dimming products from the past.

You might do better acquiring inexpensive new "shoe box" dimmer packs, or a used ETC Smartpack, for example. It might be cheaper in the long run.

Just sayin'.

ST

 

[derekleffew]

Now c'mon, @STEVETERRY , it's not like it's a Kliegpac 9 ! In fact, since it appears the Dimmy uses separate discreet driver cards, unlike the Kliegpac, it's easier to troubleshoot. @Scott S , provided you feel qualified, and using all applicable PPE and LOTO methods, swap a known-working card with a suspect one. If nothing changes it's not the card. If the problem moves, it's probably the card. Since I can't see them, I'm assuming the triacs are on the cards.

 

[Amiers]

Scrape the Dimmys. Get yourself a 24 channel sensor rack that can tie into the panel to the left of the patch bay and swing your stage pins from the new rack to the existing system.

12k for a new rack. https://www.fullcompass.com/prod/19...ye7xBEEvYQnmm9e0oeHkexou5-jNpRuxoC984QAvD_BwE

2k for a used rack. https://www.usedlighting.com/39414/..._cvKW8Wnn1BJnf1Xq-bUoiJNzQL2vEexoCyKAQAvD_BwE


Add in the cost for an electrican for the day to give you some 208v CAM drops from the panel 1k maybe cheaper if you price shop.

cost of cabling including copper and dmx 1k

New console to run all that will be needed unless you do some creative soft patching on the rack IF you upgrade.

Time and energy to repair that old dimmer will get to you. Also if you are going to keep using it clean out all the dust. With all those open panels and such it only takes one bunny to start a fire.

 

[DrewE]

Now c'mon, @STEVETERRY , it's not like it's a Kliegpac 9 ! In fact, since it appears the Dimmy uses separate discreet driver cards, unlike the Kliegpac, it's easier to troubleshoot. @Scott S , provided you feel qualified, and using all applicable PPE and LOTO methods, swap a known-working card with a suspect one. If nothing changes it's not the card. If the problem moves, it's probably the card. Since I can't see them, I'm assuming the triacs are on the cards.

The spec sheet states that all electronic parts except the thyristors and choke coils are on the PCBs, so the triacs or SCRs would be external and mounted elsewhere--apparently on the back panel, or near it, since they aren't visible anywhere near the front.

At least one--and I think I see two--of the dimmers are physically lacking their circuit breakers for some reason. Needless to say, the channel can't operate without a circuit breaker there. There may be some specific reason for that (some bad fault in that channel or something), so I'd investigate a bit carefully before just swapping in a new or different breaker. It might be worth checking that all the channel fuses are unblown. Definitely there's a great need of dusting.

There would be a lot to be gained by replacing the dimmers, but of course that costs money, and we all know that this hasn't been a very fruitful year for the money trees.

 

[STEVETERRY]

Scrape the Dimmys. Get yourself a 24 channel sensor rack that can tie into the panel to the left of the patch bay and swing your stage pins from the new rack to the existing system.

12k for a new rack. https://www.fullcompass.com/prod/19...ye7xBEEvYQnmm9e0oeHkexou5-jNpRuxoC984QAvD_BwE

2k for a used rack. https://www.usedlighting.com/39414/..._cvKW8Wnn1BJnf1Xq-bUoiJNzQL2vEexoCyKAQAvD_BwE


Add in the cost for an electrican for the day to give you some 208v CAM drops from the panel 1k maybe cheaper if you price shop.

cost of cabling including copper and dmx 1k

New console to run all that will be needed unless you do some creative soft patching on the rack IF you upgrade.

Time and energy to repair that old dimmer will get to you. Also if you are going to keep using it clean out all the dust. With all those open panels and such it only takes one bunny to start a fire.

What @Amiers said.

ST

 

[Scott S]

The spec sheet states that all electronic parts except the thyristors and choke coils are on the PCBs, so the triacs or SCRs would be external and mounted elsewhere--apparently on the back panel, or near it, since they aren't visible anywhere near the front.

At least one--and I think I see two--of the dimmers are physically lacking their circuit breakers for some reason. Needless to say, the channel can't operate without a circuit breaker there. There may be some specific reason for that (some bad fault in that channel or something), so I'd investigate a bit carefully before just swapping in a new or different breaker. It might be worth checking that all the channel fuses are unblown. Definitely there's a great need of dusting.

There would be a lot to be gained by replacing the dimmers, but of course that costs money, and we all know that this hasn't been a very fruitful year for the money trees.

Drew there is a circuit breaker removed because there was not continuity through it and that is something I'm checking out to have replaced, I did find some on Ebay but I'm just not sure if I should purchase a couple of the from there because you never know what your going to get.
Our school is a private school and funds are very limited
( so the triacs or SCRs would be external and mounted elsewhere ) yes these are mounted in the back of the box and can be accessed for replacement if needed, I have pulled out the cards and looked at them and they don't have any burn marks on them and the tracers are good, I also have switched the cards from a known good channel to a bad channel to no avail.
these units looked like they have been pulled out from another place then installed here at our school because I open the back panels and all the wires have been cut and wire nuts installed on all the wires and I'm going to have to retrace all the wires and where they go
I have made a good pinout chart ( colors to channels )
I know I'm able to get these units to work if i can get ahold of a diagram and hopefully some parts if available

 

[Scott S]

UPDATE:
Did some work on the boxes today and some minor testing on the removable board and found some dirty connections on the boards and sockets so i cleaned them up with a eraser and 480 grit paper for the sockets and I now have 9 out of 12 channels working
I also took that 1 circuit breaker apart and cleaned those contacts and it now works also

 

[microstar]

UPDATE:
Did some work on the boxes today and some minor testing on the removable board and found some dirty connections on the boards and sockets so i cleaned them up with a eraser and 480 grit paper for the sockets and I now have 9 out of 12 channels working
I also took that 1 circuit breaker apart and cleaned those contacts and it now works also

Great job! Sometimes it takes just keeping at it and eliminating the issues one step at a time. When you put the cleaned up breaker back in did that fix the 10th dimmer or is that included in the 9 of 12 now working? Thanks for keeping us informed of your progress.

 

[Scott S]

yes the 10th dimmer is working and I know it was the breaker but I did go through all the cards and cleaned them up
I do have one card that when I plugged it in a good channel it was dim like the light was only getting half the power
one thing that I don't understand is the breaker was overheated but it did not trip and the fuse was not blown, the fuses are 50 rated and the breakers are 20 amp rated
these breakers are able to be taken apart, on the back there are 4 holes covered in some kind of glue and under the glue there are screws and the contact was pitted and over heated, I cleaned them up nice and smooth on both pieces and it works for now, I cant trust it for safety purposes because it looks like it never tripped so I'm looking everywhere for new breakers, but anyways I only have 3 channels to go and its not the cards, I think that's going to be wiring in the back with all the wire nuts
From the beginning I would find a problem then another would show its ugly head then another and another the further down I went more problems showed up but I see a light at the end of the tunnel and I don't think its a train it might be one of our Century cans with a 500 watt bulb

 

[derekleffew]

I know I'm able to get these units to work if i can get ahold of a diagram and hopefully some parts if available

These were mentioned in the other thread, but I'll post them here as well.

Century Lighting Service, Inc.
18-02 River Road
Fair Lawn, NJ 07410-1201
(201) 791-7001 FAX (201) 791-3167
Contact: Sal Maratta & Joel Epstein
E-Mail: [email protected]
Specializing in old and obsolete dimming equipment to current equipment. Field service coverage of the Eastern United States.

Lite-Trol Service
Steve Short
1-800-LITE-TROL
Hicksville, NY
Lite-Trol Service

 

[FMEng]

Good job troubleshooting. In the future, keep erasers and, especially, the sand paper away the contacts. Using those are hard to kill myths. They work short term, and deposit substances which will come back to haunt later. Buy a can of Caig DeoxIT D5 and a can of Caig Gold G5 for cleaning and treating contacts.

 

[Scott S]

Good job troubleshooting. In the future, keep erasers and, especially, the sand paper away the contacts. Using those are hard to kill myths. They work short term, and deposit substances which will come back to haunt later. Buy a can of Caig DeoxIT D5 and a can of Caig Gold G5 for cleaning and treating contacts.

Will do
thanks for the info

 

[microstar]

These were mentioned in the other thread, but I'll post them here as well.

Century Lighting Service, Inc.
18-02 River Road
Fair Lawn, NJ 07410-1201
(201) 791-7001 FAX (201) 791-3167
Contact: Sal Maratta & Joel Epstein
E-Mail: [email protected]
Specializing in old and obsolete dimming equipment to current equipment. Field service coverage of the Eastern United States.

Lite-Trol Service
Steve Short
1-800-LITE-TROL
Hicksville, NY
Lite-Trol Service

You cannot go wrong with Steve Short and Lite-trol.

 

[microstar]

yes the 10th dimmer is working and I know it was the breaker but I did go through all the cards and cleaned them up
I do have one card that when I plugged it in a good channel it was dim like the light was only getting half the power
one thing that I don't understand is the breaker was overheated but it did not trip and the fuse was not blown, the fuses are 50 rated and the breakers are 20 amp rated
these breakers are able to be taken apart, on the back there are 4 holes covered in some kind of glue and under the glue there are screws and the contact was pitted and over heated, I cleaned them up nice and smooth on both pieces and it works for now, I cant trust it for safety purposes because it looks like it never tripped so I'm looking everywhere for new breakers, but anyways I only have 3 channels to go and its not the cards, I think that's going to be wiring in the back with all the wire nuts
From the beginning I would find a problem then another would show its ugly head then another and another the further down I went more problems showed up but I see a light at the end of the tunnel and I don't think its a train it might be one of our Century cans with a 500 watt bulb

Maybe take some good closeup photos of both sides of the bad card and post here. Probably someone will have an idea of what specifically to look at on it given the symptoms.

 

[Scott S]

Maybe take some good closeup photos of both sides of the bad card and post here. Probably someone will have an idea of what specifically to look at on it given the symptoms.

I will take some pictures tomorrow and post them

 

[DrewE]

It sounds like you're making good progress!

The breakers may well be magnetic trip only, and not thermal-magnetic or thermal breakers. A magnetic trip breaker could get quite hot without tripping if the contacts were in bad shape so long as the current flowing was below the trip point.

Personally, I'd be rather disinclined to use breakers that I had refurbished when they were not specifically designed or marked as being user-serviceable and without specific guidance from the maker on how to do any such service. They're a primary safety device for the dimmer circuits, and failure to trip could be a very significant fire hazard if things go awry. One way to at least mostly ensure protection for the circuit would be to replace the 50A fuse with a 20A one; the disadvantage, of course, is that an overload may well blow the fuse rather than trip the breaker, which is considerably less convenient to rectify.

 

[Scott S]

It sounds like you're making good progress!

The breakers may well be magnetic trip only, and not thermal-magnetic or thermal breakers. A magnetic trip breaker could get quite hot without tripping if the contacts were in bad shape so long as the current flowing was below the trip point.

Personally, I'd be rather disinclined to use breakers that I had refurbished when they were not specifically designed or marked as being user-serviceable and without specific guidance from the maker on how to do any such service. They're a primary safety device for the dimmer circuits, and failure to trip could be a very significant fire hazard if things go awry. One way to at least mostly ensure protection for the circuit would be to replace the 50A fuse with a 20A one; the disadvantage, of course, is that an overload may well blow the fuse rather than trip the breaker, which is considerably less convenient to rectify.

i agree with the breaker and I put it in the box just for testing and I’m trying to find replacements. I will open the breaker back up and take a picture and post that also
Now the fuses did not make sense when I first saw them, a 50 amp when there is a breaker in-line that’s a 20 amp. I have 2 boxes of 20 amp coming. I hope that the fuse will blow because I will know that something is not correct

 

[RonHebbard]

i agree with the breaker and I put it in the box just for testing and I’m trying to find replacements. I will open the breaker back up and take a picture and post that also
Now the fuses did not make sense when I first saw them, a 50 amp when there is a breaker in-line that’s a 20 amp. I have 2 boxes of 20 amp coming. I hope that the fuse will blow because I will know that something is not correct

The fuse may be designed with / selected for an incorporated time lag to permit a higher current for a specified duration before fusing.
The breakers MAY be designed to trip comparatively quickly.
Perhaps I could / should have explained that better. I'll stop typing and crawl back in my cave.
EDIT: Or as I used to phrase it: SCR's and TIAC's blow to protect fuses.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[almorton]

One channel coming on at half power suggests output device failure. I'm not familiar enough with these dimmers o know whether they're SCR or triac, but it will probably be one of the thyristors, or the triac, although if they're thyristor based it could be one of the thyristor drive circuits on that channel.