Strand NEO Compact 10 can't gain control of lights

Greetings all!

Helping a NYC middle school with their lights. They have a newly installed (and never explained, of course) rig - Strand a21 dimmer rack, (20) LED ellipsoidals, (10) LED border/strip lights, Strand NEO Compact 10 light console, (2) architectural panels [one is a 6 button switch, the other has the 6 buttons plus 9? faders], (2) DMX input jacks.

My issue - after connecting the Compact 10's DMX cable (presumably for the 1st time), the architectural boxes still had all the control. I was only able to control the lights from the Compact 10 by changing a setting on the DMX output section (Digressive RANT - I wish I could be more specific, but I can't find any freaking manual for this board other than a nearly worthless Quick Start sheet. I assume it's based on the Zero88, but that manual doesn't seem to apply to this box. Grrr.) to add the DMX output to the ILC? which is the architectural feed, I assume.

The a21 rack shows a green light for ILC?, but plugging into either of the 2 DMX ports, I never see the DMX light illuminate.

I assume there's some way for the DMX console to take control from the architectural boxes - can anyone clue me in? Or point me toward some Strand person who can answer some questions?

Much obliged!
dkh
 

Edward- Z88

Member
Hi @Keith Herron

My issue - after connecting the Compact 10's DMX cable (presumably for the 1st time), the architectural boxes still had all the control. I was only able to control the lights from the Compact 10 by changing a setting on the DMX output section
What are the "architectural boxes" you are using? Are these Vision.Net devices or another product? Do you know how both the console and architectural control stations are connected to your lighting system - what protocol is in use?

I wish I could be more specific, but I can't find any freaking manual for this board other than a nearly worthless Quick Start sheet. I assume it's based on the Zero88, but that manual doesn't seem to apply to this box.
Sorry to hear this. As a side note, the Compact 10 is not based on a Zero 88 console (the FLX S consoles are available under both Strand and Zero 88 brands, and both use the Zero 88 manual).

I assume there's some way for the DMX console to take control from the architectural boxes - can anyone clue me in? Or point me toward some Strand person who can answer some questions?
Please feel free to send us an email to [email protected] and we will be able to help further.

Edward
 
Edward,

Thanks so much for jumping on this so quickly. I have sent an email to the signify email address - only automated replies so far, but one lives in hope.

The architectural boxes look like vision.net - 63312 and 63321, but with 6 buttons. I'm pretty clueless about architectural control, so I have no idea about what protocol they're speaking. I'm going from memory here about the ILC acronym - I remember it starts w/an "i". I assume that's what those boxes are speaking.

Hopefully I'll discover more today - and maybe hear from signify.
 

JohnD

Well-Known Member
Fight Leukemia
I have no idea if it will help but there is this:
Click on "downloads".
 

Edward- Z88

Member
Hi Keith,

Thanks so much for jumping on this so quickly. I have sent an email to the signify email address - only automated replies so far, but one lives in hope.
Thanks for sending us an email. My colleague Jeff will be in touch soon.

The architectural boxes look like vision.net - 63312 and 63321, but with 6 buttons. I'm pretty clueless about architectural control, so I have no idea about what protocol they're speaking. I'm going from memory here about the ILC acronym - I remember it starts w/an "i". I assume that's what those boxes are speaking.
Thanks for the information. Are you outputting DMX over Ethernet from your console, or are you using the DMX outputs on the rear of the console?

Edward
 
Hi Keith,


Thanks for sending us an email. My colleague Jeff will be in touch soon.


Thanks for the information. Are you outputting DMX over Ethernet from your console, or are you using the DMX outputs on the rear of the console?

Edward
DMX output 1 on rear of console.

Further to what equipment is in the mix - there's a panel next to the a21 - one of the DMX jacks feeds into it - when I open it, there are some circuit boards that say "DMX splitter" with 4 outputs that I assume send the DMX signal to the various pipes where the LEDs are hung. There's a "DMX terminator" switch which is in the 'off' position. Changing it to 'on' didn't do anything for me, as I assumed it wouldn't - the individual runs look pretty short.
 

Amiers

Renting to Corporate One Fixture at a Time.
DMX output 1 on rear of console.

Further to what equipment is in the mix - there's a panel next to the a21 - one of the DMX jacks feeds into it - when I open it, there are some circuit boards that say "DMX splitter" with 4 outputs that I assume send the DMX signal to the various pipes where the LEDs are hung. There's a "DMX terminator" switch which is in the 'off' position. Changing it to 'on' didn't do anything for me, as I assumed it wouldn't - the individual runs look pretty short.

What kind of control do you get when you changed the “output setting” and did you change it on the panel or the console?

Does the splitter have a passthrough on it where you could Jack in at the source to confirm that your inputs by the panels are good but saying you already got control it seems like they do kinda.

The panels should have some sort of off function on them which passes control back to another source if one is present and outputting DMX.

We love pictures around here. So snap some of everything from the booth to the dimmer room from the inputs to the outputs. We all love a good mystery.
 

danTt

Well-Known Member
Hi @Keith Herron


What are the "architectural boxes" you are using? Are these Vision.Net devices or another product? Do you know how both the console and architectural control stations are connected to your lighting system - what protocol is in use?


Sorry to hear this. As a side note, the Compact 10 is not based on a Zero 88 console (the FLX S consoles are available under both Strand and Zero 88 brands, and both use the Zero 88 manual).


Please feel free to send us an email to [email protected] and we will be able to help further.

Edward
Let me just take a second to say it's a nice change and surprise to see someone from (Phillips/Strand/Signify/Whatever the appropriate name might be:) ) here and responsive on the forums. Hope to see more of you in the future!
 
Pictures - as requested.
The NEO Compact 10 is plugged into the other DMX IN box (not pictured). The a21 doesn't seem to register that fact, but the Pathway eDIN box, where the circuit boards are housed, seems to.
The setting on the Compact 10 that gave me control (as long as the architectural controls are set to OFF) is something like "add to ITP".
Maybe - now that I'm reading the note on the 13-slider box - hitting it's #6 will turn off the architectural controls and give over to the Compact 10. I didn't see that note yesterday when I was there, so I didn't test that theory. Another day...
 

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John Palmer

Well-Known Member
The top part of the cards in the fourth photo doesn't look to be fully seated to the lower card. I also don't know what those cards are doing.
Do you know if the system has ever worked? What might have changed?
The Neo Compact 10 should be the same programming syntax as the Strand Neo. There is a Strand Neo Facebook group.
Paging @bharrell
Bobby Harrell is the Neo expert.
Take care,
John
 

Amiers

Renting to Corporate One Fixture at a Time.
The top part of the cards in the fourth photo doesn't look to be fully seated to the lower card. I also don't know what those cards are doing.
Do you know if the system has ever worked? What might have changed?
The Neo Compact 10 should be the same programming syntax as the Strand Neo. There is a Strand Neo Facebook group.
Paging @bharrell
Bobby Harrell is the Neo expert.
Take care,
John

The top part of the card is going into DMX In. So I’m thinking that is the architectural main control/processing board. But you are completely correct that the bottom board is suuupper crooked.
 

Edward- Z88

Member
Let me just take a second to say it's a nice change and surprise to see someone from (Phillips/Strand/Signify/Whatever the appropriate name might be:) ) here and responsive on the forums. Hope to see more of you in the future!
No problem at all @danTt ! As a bit of background, I was originally the Product Specialist for Zero 88, and kept an eye on the forum for any Z88 queries. Since the Z88 acquisition, I am covering both Z88 and NEO control systems. And either Strand/Signify is fine - but nothing to do with Philips anymore!

Pictures - as requested.
The NEO Compact 10 is plugged into the other DMX IN box (not pictured). The a21 doesn't seem to register that fact, but the Pathway eDIN box, where the circuit boards are housed, seems to.
The setting on the Compact 10 that gave me control (as long as the architectural controls are set to OFF) is something like "add to ITP".
Maybe - now that I'm reading the note on the 13-slider box - hitting it's #6 will turn off the architectural controls and give over to the Compact 10. I didn't see that note yesterday when I was there, so I didn't test that theory. Another day...
Thanks very much for the pictures @Keith Herron. If you haven't already, please also email these pictures to [email protected], so we have everything in one thread to troubleshoot further.

If you are outputting physical DMX from the rear of the console, and not over Ethernet, I am not sure why changing a setting on the console allowed you to gain control of the system - DMX does not have a concept of priorities. Would you also be able to email us a copy of your NEO Compact 10 show file?

The Neo Compact 10 should be the same programming syntax as the Strand Neo. There is a Strand Neo Facebook group.
Yes - Compact 10 runs the same NEO software as the standard NEO console, just in a slightly simplified way. Click here for the Strand Console Users FB group.

But you are completely correct that the bottom board is suuupper crooked.
Agreed - can you confirm both boards are securely clipped onto the DIN rail?

Edward
 
If I ever get back to this school - or entice one of the teachers to experiment with me over the phone - I'll update this thread. I'm now in regular contact with Jeff & Luis at Strand/Signify, who have been very helpful. I think I now understand what plugs into what and how things are supposed to work. To summarize:
  • the architectural boxes are Vision.net
  • they plug into a Strand/DMX512 card in the eDIN enclosure
  • the DMX card plugs into a DMX splitter that feeds the 4 pipes w/LED instruments
  • the 2 DMX input jacks feed into this, as well
  • the Compact 10 does its thing
Strand/Signify has asked to update to the latest software. If/when that happens, I'll do some more testing to see if things work the way I THINK they're supposed to.

Bottom line - I don't think there's any hardware/software failure - just mostly unfamiliarity with how things are supposed to work and no documentation at the school (nor institutional knowledge since things get installed and training never happens) of how things actually got built.

Thank you again for all your input.
 

JohnA

Active Member
I absolutely agree with your "Bottom line" comment, and have encountered this in every school where I have been a contracted outside consultant.
 

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