Conventional Fixtures Stuck 6" Altman Fresnel Lamp

Today I started maintenance on a number of lights and at the end of the day I found myself struggling with eight 6" Altman Fresnels. Of the eight lamps which were burnt out 3 came out with minimal effort, but 5 lamps are stuck in the socket.

The lamps rotate properly, but even when they are lined up they refuse to come out.

Is there anything I can do other then pull?
 
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What ^he^ said. While wearing gloves. Heavy, leather, glass-impenetrable gloves. If it's a failed, or suspected failed, lamp, it might not matter whether you touch the glass envelope. Do you have a plastic "condom" from a new lamp? But you're probably not replacing good lamps (except for a wattage change). What has likely happened is the center contact on the base of the lamp has fused itself to the center, spring-loaded contact of the P28s socket. While ship says the button can be resurfaced or replaced (somewhere in the threads below), I'd suggest replacing the entire socket. In which case, you can remove completely the wingnut on the bottom, and pull out the sled containing socket and reflector, after loosening the strain relief where the tail enters the fixture.

http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/11026-altman-6-fresnel-lamp-base-problems.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/12805-electro-controls-fresnel.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/11020-altman-8-fresnel-arcing.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/22505-lifespan-65q-socket.html
 
I should really read these things better...of course it doesn't matter if you break or touch a burnt out lamp....I like to use a side to side wiggle in addition to twisting and pulling.
 
I should really read these things better...of course it doesn't matter if you break or touch a burnt out lamp....I like to use a side to side wiggle in addition to twisting and pulling.

The side to side wiggle is how I got the other three out. I know I just need to put more time into getting these suckers out.

All eight of the lamps are burnt out which is the only reason I am taking them out.

I'm bringing my kit to disassemble and take a look at the socket tomorrow. Hopefully starting with this at the beginning of the day will yield better results.
 
I don't want to insult, but working with some older Altman fixtures myself, I've managed to get the keys lined up "backwards" more than once... As these sockets as they age, and springs weaken, seem to allow 360 degree spin from the lamp base...
Is it possible the keys are lined up in reverse? (Larger key attempting to leave via the smaller socket hole)
 
I don't want to insult, but working with some older Altman fixtures myself, I've managed to get the keys lined up "backwards" more than once... As these sockets as they age, and springs weaken, seem to allow 360 degree spin from the lamp base...
Is it possible the keys are lined up in reverse? (Larger key attempting to leave via the smaller socket hole)
I've done this more times than I care to admit. Fortunately, I don't have any fixtures at this school with mogul prefocus sockets.
 
Even if you can get the lamps out, you may want to replace the sockets (or check out Ship's aforementioned repair method). This problem could be a symptom of a worn-out spring under the button, causing poor or intermittent connection. Without replacing the sockets, the next lamps may have trouble making connection, or become fused and damaged themselves.

Anyone else impressed that I used "aforementioned" in a sentence?
 
AT least it’s noted that you don’t always have to replace the socket - this assuming you even get that far in often those replacing the lamps don’t even think about it to that extent in putting perfectly good lamps into bad sockets and wondering why a few hundred hours later they are again replacing the lamp? Gee’ why did the lamp go bad? Simple question with any lamp all skilled tech people should be able to answer.
On the P-28s socket (Medium pre-focus for those that are not up with current tech,) yea... I am probably at about 90% saved sockets at this point over hundreds of fixtures with this socket worked on. That said if weak spring - variable in that concept in how much tension verses how clean that center plate is for the lamp installed on it.

Some lamps have a large contact plate, others have a more or less ball of contact that requires a small surface area to conduct and these would require more tension on the spring to get a good contact.

One lamp better than the other? Sure the larger surface area if older fixture perhaps but often they have solder blobs in not really a plate of contact in negating the point. On the other hand, if your socket is pitted even after cleaning, such a ball of contact in perhaps contacting part of that while clean pitted part won’t have the surface area perhaps and the spring will otherwise be necessary.

Not actively comparing brands of lamp in who makes what style, but perhaps if older fixture for a Fresnel lamp, something that doesn’t have a center contact ball for contact instead of a plate would not be the best for use assuming warn out springs.

Stuff I don’t know: like if the ball of contact on above lamps extends a bit further in compressing the spring a bit more thus negating the question of one style or another. At some point if really weak spring, wider surface contact or ball contact won’t help in resistance to current flow.

Beyond that, some socket center plates can be tightened some - and as you should check all of the various screws on a socket during maintenance as they can loosen and resist current flow also.

Side note, I store up parts in replacing broken porcelains with good gizzards etc. Clean the attachment sockets also and if just wire under screw in the connection... not good enough. Also padding under the socket if asbestos needs to be replaced. Lots of details in addition to just cleaning the thing.

If one is not able to really really inspect or clean a socket, it’s probably cheaper in overall lamp life to just replace them. Would simply love if them with say a VL3K fixture, if they would inspect the lamp to the extent of asking themselves why they failed? Say outer pinch failure due to bad lamp socket... perhaps replace the lamp socket while also replacing the lamp. This as opposed to throwing a perfectly good lamp into a perfectly bad socket - some time six or more times again until the wiring to it melts down or the socket cannot mount a new lamp. Lots of fixtures I see this general concept on. Gee... bad lamp, why did it go bad?

Same thing from Fresnel to modern light often. Just a question of asking oneself while removing the old lamp, why did it fail?

On the P-28s, yea, I do stuff to them not recommended given like 20 years or working with them. Above concepts are correct and especially if not able to clean it. Than after that, the question of how much tension the center socket should have. I think it nees as much as new - older spring tension mostly fine but debatable as with the lamp used in it.

This noting that the tension on a spring doesn't persay get more as you compress it, more that in the above if a little loose it might be less than proper tension to start if able to tighten.

Many lamp sockets out there thru the years and some don't even fit in a fixture the same as older ones do. Things you can do to them depend on the brand or style of socket. Many can be saved and be fine, others need lots of work or cannot be saved.

Spring loosing it's tension either is from being loose that pounding a flange or tightening might solve or bad spring due to heat having tempered it in holding it's form instead of being a spring. Easy enough to detect. Springs don't persay loose their tension and perhaps it is even loose seeming in compressing, sufficient often for that central contact.

General concept in why one doesn't always have to replace a re-surfaced socket, but on the other hand might be safer if in doubt in doing so if not able to determine this.
 
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