TERRIBLE PATCH-NEED HELP REVISING!

L

LightTech

Member
At my school we are currently using an ancient Strand Lightboard M. In a couple of weeks we are getting a new ETC Element 60. We want to create a patch that is more organized than the one we currently have....

Listing them in order of channels from left to right:

R WASH, L WASH, DSL, DSR, DC, C, RED WASH, BLUE WASH, CL, CR, USC, USR, USL, RED CYC, GREEN CYC, BLUE CYC, Scroller Master, Work Lights, Right Shakespeare, Left Shakespeare

Any tips for organizing this mess would be greatly appreciated.
 
Without thinking too much about it...
MagicSheet.jpg

I'm not sure where the "L Wash/R Wash" are coming from, nor what "L/R Shakespeare" are. I wouldn't patch all the scrollers into one channel, use a group for this. When you get more experience with the board, you can create a compound fixture that includes the scroller and dimmer in one. There's probably already a generic scroller/dimmer fixture definition in the Element's library.

Are houselights controlled via this console or another?
 
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Channels are all over the place and makes manual cues really hectic.
 
derekleffew said:
Without thinking too much about it...
View attachment 4642

I'm not sure where the "L Wash/R Wash" are coming from, nor what "L/R Shakespeare" are. I wouldn't patch all the scrollers into one channel, use a group for this. When you get more experience with the board, you can create a compound fixture that includes the scroller and dimmer in one. There's probably already a generic scroller/dimmer fixture definition in the Element's library.

Are houselights controlled via this console or another?
Click to expand...

R & L WASH are fresnels that fill in the Right and Left sides of the stage. Shakespeares are lights that can hold gobos. Our board is AMX and our scrollers are DMX, so they are operated off of a smaller Leviton board. The master is on the main board. Our houselights are operated off of a different console. We plan on patching the scrollers in on the Element as we are getting a DMX converter.
 
LightTech said:
R & L WASH are fresnels that fill in the Right and Left sides of the stage. Shakespeares are lights that can hold gobos. Our board is AMX and our scrollers are DMX, so they are operated off of a smaller Leviton board. The master is on the main board. Our houselights are operated off of a different console. We plan on patching the scrollers in on the Element as we are getting a DMX converter.
Click to expand...

Maybe I missed something, but if the element is DMX512, and your scrollers are DMX512, there should be no need for a DMX converter.
 
Once you get the Element, I would just do an one to one patch, then do subs from there. I am a big manual fan but most will tell you to cue stack everything. Once you have your new patch you can set pairs or whole groups on subs and run from there, or do a combo of cue stack and subs. If you want indivdual manual dimmer control, you can patch in whatever order works for you.
 
I think you are thinking old strand patching and want to fix it ...and you will with your new board in so so so many ways. i think what mstaylor is saying is the best way to work it out (one to one) and then build subs (looks) and with one to one you and group what you want together or leave it to just one one sub. also with all these channels you will have you can address all of the scroller separate you then can do more things with them ....where in BC are you?
 
This may not be of much help to the OP,
We use an Express 48/96 which is a bit/very excessive for what we have (71 Circuits running all conventionals) however I really like having the ability of seeing everything at once.
I have all of our channels spread out in logical groups so it is easy to see it and know what and where it is on stage.
Channels 1-16 are our 16 FOH lekos. In order left to right. A few empty faders down is our first electric with the exception of the two cyc lights on it. The order or channels correspond with the fixtures house left-right.
The next bank of faders is our cycs, Clearly labeled "Front" and "Back". Front being downstage electric which has two, three channel cyc lights, the set of three faders on the left are for the left light, and vice versa.
And then on the last bank of faders is the houselights in order of,

Back Row, Proscenium, Stair Lights, Houselights Row 1, Houselights Row 2, etc. (Front to back in order)


(We have an open air booth in the back of the house so we use the back row of house lights if needed during a show.)



So you can get the gist of it, I like it organized :p. It makes getting to circuits quick and easy during a run when needed, especially in a high school show!

I orginally wanted a 1:1 patch so that if anyone had to use the board for some reasons they could look at a light, see the circuit number above it and just flip on the corresponding fader, but with some recent changes in persons with access to the equipment I decided it wasnt worth it.

Also having a light plot is always a good thing to do. Vector Works gives free copies to students, that's how I got mine. (Student myself)
I have a bunch of different plots focusing on certain things but also a master one that show all fixtures where they are on stage, the dimmer number, and the channel number.


Sorry, got a little long winded there!
 
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coldnorth57 said:
I think you are thinking old strand patching and want to fix it ...and you will with your new board in so so so many ways. i think what mstaylor is saying is the best way to work it out (one to one) and then build subs (looks) and with one to one you and group what you want together or leave it to just one one sub. also with all these channels you will have you can address all of the scroller separate you then can do more things with them ....where in BC are you?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification.

I'm from Nanaimo, BC.
 
Here's the problem with a one-to-one, channel=dimmer, patch (as was said many times in 1:1 patch: Do you use it?): most high schools have 48 or 96 dimmers. Why force your channel layout to be how the electrical contractor/system engineer decided to arbitrarily number the circuits? It may or may not make sense. Even if laid out logically, it's possible/probable that the lights for area 1/A/I end up being something like dimmers 2 and 17. Area 2/B/II is 4 and 15. Who wants to remember and run that? Yes, one can patch those channels to subs to make it more logical. But I'd rather look at the screen to see the levels of channels (1) and (2), as opposed to (2) (17) (4) (15). (A movie or TV shoot, where one is constantly putting up and taking down lights, and has few, if any actual cues, is an exception.)

Since we're talking about an Element 60, I chose to put "worklights" in channel (40) as it's the last channel fader on the second row. One can then build looks in subs 1>20 (third row). The whole system (channels 1>40 and subs 1>20) is accessible all on one page, without turning the little page knob. I suspect that paging will lead to confusion, especially in a HS setting. I've never run an Element, but I think I'd get frustrated always having to turn that little knob to make sure I'm where I think I am.

The use of channel faders is another controversy. Most professional, higher-end consoles don't have them, due to higher channel counts and need for direct access via the keypad. If I were using an Element with a lot (over 100) of channels and dimmers, I'd probably keep the Element paged to subs-only, and treat it like an Express 125/250 or Expression, with no channel faders at all. I'd still have a custom softpatch.


Question for Element users: Can the channel display (tombstone) screen be set for "20 channels-across" (Obsession) or "25 channels-across" (Expression)? I'm sure it can.
 
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But I don't want to zoom the display. I want the same gosh dang 20 (or 25) across channel display I've been looking at for the past 31 years.:angryoldman: (Hate flexi-channel for the same reason.)
One that matches my cheat sheets.
proxy.php


derekleffew said:
...Question for Element users: Can the channel display (tombstone) screen be set for "20 channels-across" (Obsession) or "25 channels-across" (Expression)? I'm sure it can.
Click to expand...
My question was answered by watching http://www.etcconnect.com/support.tutorialseries.aspx?seriesId=2&tutorialId=20064 . Personally, I'd keep the display 20-across so it matches the channel fader handles. I'm peculiar like that.
 
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derekleffew said:
But I don't want to zoom the display. I want the same gosh dang 20 (or 25) across channel display I've been looking at for the past 31 years.:angryoldman: (Hate flexi-channel for the same reason.)
One that matches my cheat sheets.
Click to expand...
I have to say, I agree with you. I like the old way of just channels lined up in a consistent and predictable way. Also why I was never a fan of flexi in Express(ion). And I'm not an :angryoldman: like Derek :lol: I just like that no matter what show it is or who is programming or designing or whatever, channel 27 is always in the same spot on the screen. Makes finding channel levels on the screen easier.
Needless to say, I am not a big fan of the new ETC "tombstone" look. But, I'm young, I'll probably get used to it soon. And, in 30-40 years, I'll be complaining about the holographic display and how, "in my day" we used tombstones!
 
xander said:
I have to say, I agree with you. I like the old way of just channels lined up in a consistent and predictable way. Also why I was never a fan of flexi in Express(ion). And I'm not an :angryoldman: like Derek :lol: I just like that no matter what show it is or who is programming or designing or whatever, channel 27 is always in the same spot on the screen. Makes finding channel levels on the screen easier.
Needless to say, I am not a big fan of the new ETC "tombstone" look. But, I'm young, I'll probably get used to it soon. And, in 30-40 years, I'll be complaining about the holographic display and how, "in my day" we used tombstones!
Click to expand...

My new method of choice when programming on new ETC consoles is the "Show Active" flexi mode. Rather than having to scroll through 5+ pages of channels, it's really easy - if the channel is on, I can see it, if it's not, it doesn't show up. And for many cues, it all fits nicely onto one page. I used to try to stick with the "100 Channels Per Page" mode, but now that designers are leaving so many empty channels, it's not even worth it.
 
In the Ion, I prefer the Patched Channels view and I zoom all the time.

One nice thing about zoom is I can set the screen for 25 for when Derek comes to visit, or to 20 for somebody else, then record as a snapshot. Or set to 25 on Derek's design table monitor and anything I the operator desires at the console.
 
SteveB said:
In the Ion, I prefer the Patched Channels view and I zoom all the time.

One nice thing about zoom is I can set the screen for 25 for when Derek comes to visit, or to 20 for somebody else, then record as a snapshot. Or set to 25 on Derek's design table monitor and anything I the operator desires at the console.
Click to expand...

I like this too. It irkes me when the designer comes in and then tells me how to set up the look of the screen that I am programing on for them. If you are not even using a monitor, just sitting in the chair in front saying "up 10% on 51" and the like, please dont tell me that I need to have 20 channels per row, just let me put it how it makes sense. After all, its my speed your interested in. The ability to make the design monitor and the programmer monitor the way each likes it to me is a great feature.
 
LightTech said:
The rest of our dimmers are AMX.
Click to expand...

You have the same situation we had when we replaced our AMX board with DMX. Our dimmers are the old version of CD-80 with no capability of DMX control. I purchased an ETC AMX/DMX Response Converter, which can convert protocols in either direction. I used that to supply the AMX to our CD-80s. I could have used the DMX out on the converter to feed my DMX packs/devices, but I have chosen to use the second DMX universe on the board instead. This works well for us. Bill
 
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