Wedding uplighting / architectural

[jjhall5150]

A little background first.....

I am what could be considered a "high end" wedding entertainer / DJ. I sepcialize in upscale events. (hope that doesn't sound snobbish) and have had my company for 23 years

I now want to branch out into uplighting and right now just picked up some (cheap 10mm Eternal RGBA) to fool around with, not actually use. Most other "DJs" go the cheap route, ie: Blizzard, Eternal, Chauvet, China knockoff, and I cannot place my lighting options on that same level because I am known for quality

The question.......

For uplighting walls and columns, along with cake pinspots, I would like some opininons on the best bang for the buck lights.

The ETC Selador series looks like my type of fixture, but I hear really good things about Elation as well. Whatever the purchase is, it has to be DMX controllable and have the ability to produce a wide range of color pallets (since my brides are very particular).

I'm not trying to uplight people, just the walls and columns. From a budgetary standpoint, I would love some suggestions.

Thanks

Jim Hall
James Hall Events
Pittsfield, MA.

 

[soundlight]

I think that staying away from the lower end manufacturers is a good idea, but I don't think that you should so quickly dismiss all of Chauvet. The new Chauvet Professional stuff has been great in my experience. I'd look at the COLORdash PAR Quad series, the 7 or the 18. Whatever you get, I would suggest that you get RGBA fixtures that have multichip LEDs. As far as Elation goes, I'd look at the new EPAR QA units. The company that I work for recently acquired 96 for rental inventory they're doing well. Had an issue here and an issue there to send back to Elation, but that's to be expected with any Elation fixture. The fixtures have 14 5-watt RGBA diodes and have plenty of punch to go pretty far up a wall. Best of all, with the PowerCon linking, you can link power as well as data, which means fewer power strips and triple taps and extension cords, meaning a much cleaner setup.

 

[RickR]

The ETC Selador series looks like my type of fixture, but I hear really good things about Elation as well. Whatever the purchase is, it has to be DMX controllable and have the ability to produce a wide range of color pallets (since my brides are very particular).

Look into your control carefully. Are you really going to run DMX cable all over the room? It's quite doable, but can take significant effort. Is your console able to let you run a dance show but leave the room static? You might want 2 controllers... Remember 32 devices on a DMX run, with a big room and a cool stage setup you might hit that limit.

Seladors are great color but the "classic" type doesn't have a stand-alone mode. The Selador Desire group does. It can make a big difference for those few spots where you just want to set a color and leave it.

I haven't tried them but there are some battery powered LEDs around. Chauvet & others make a "well" fixture that are outdoor rated and some even have a wireless DMX option. Expensive, but they might be just the trick for a short set-up & high performance gig.

 

[jjhall5150]

Look into your control carefully. Are you really going to run DMX cable all over the room? It's quite doable, but can take significant effort. Is your console able to let you run a dance show but leave the room static? You might want 2 controllers... Remember 32 devices on a DMX run, with a big room and a cool stage setup you might hit that limit.

Seladors are great color but the "classic" type doesn't have a stand-alone mode. The Selador Desire group does. It can make a big difference for those few spots where you just want to set a color and leave it.

I haven't tried them but there are some battery powered LEDs around. Chauvet & others make a "well" fixture that are outdoor rated and some even have a wireless DMX option. Expensive, but they might be just the trick for a short set-up & high performance gig.

Hi Rick,

Thanks for the input.

I was going to look into a dedicated hardware unit just for the pars or wall washes. I am currently looking at software options for the dance lighting I currently own. However, at this time I am running panel lights (Chauvet RGB Strobe, ADJ profile panel) along with some Bliss-Lights that seem to do the job really well in stand-alone mode.

Most of my clients do not like the tradional "spin-and-puke" lights, so I can run stand alone very easily with what I already have.

I really wanted to purchase the fixture first, then the control board to fit the light. What would be ideal is a fixture that could be pre-programmed prior to the event which has the ability to save the color to memory so DMX cabling would not be an issue. However, the current budget is only allowing for lighting in the $350 - $500 range

 

[kicknargel]

I'm not super experienced with LED, but I'd guess that for your use you'll probably be fine on the medium-to-low end. I think the higher end (Seledor) has more to do with smooth dimming curves and non-rainbowing shadows (especially on bodies) which probably isn't a big concern for architectural washing.

 

[techieman33]

I'm not super experienced with LED, but I'd guess that for your use you'll probably be fine on the medium-to-low end. I think the higher end (Seledor) has more to do with smooth dimming curves and non-rainbowing shadows (especially on bodies) which probably isn't a big concern for architectural washing.

Agreed and with a $350-$500 per fixture budget seladors are WAY out of your league. Even some of the Chauvet and Elation stuff will be out of your price range. I would suggest something like the Chauvet WELL, with the 12 hour battery and wireless control they or something like them are ideal for your situation. I think they retail in the $999 range. When you consider the savings in other areas though it could be worth it to try and stretch the budget. They'll give you a lot more flexibility with placement since you won't have to worry about getting power and data to them, and won't have to waste hours of your time running cable through ceilings and such to try and keep it from being a tripping hazard or an eye sore.

 

[chausman]

Some fixtures will hold their look indefinitely. I don't know which specifically, but I'm sure others or a demo would answer that question. That may be an option for you if the architectural lighting would be static throughout the event. Walk around with a laptop or small cheap controller before the event starts, set your looks, and be done.

 

[bishopthomas]

I also do a lot of wedding/sweet 16 lighting. For uplighting I use Colorkey (ColorKey - StagePar Mini - TC3-7), but mainly because I'm a dealer. There are probably better fixtures out there for only slightly more money, but these fit my needs and are small enough to be unobtrusive. I do plan on purchasing some battery operated wireless DMX LED's next year, but I still haven't found anything worth buying.

 

[jjhall5150]

I have yet to see a wireless / battery unit under $1000 that produces enough lumens to be effective. I've also been hearing a lot of horror stories of battery units disappearing during an event.

As an entertainer, it would be really difficult for me to keep an eye on 10+ lights to make sure they didn't walk away.

I am looking into purchasing second hand units for around the $500 range, to get started. I may lean toward something like the Chauvet COLORado 1 units. Just want to make sure it doesn't produce the dreaded "Halo" effect in the middle of the wall.

Another option would be to go with a strip light for walls, and use my current Eternal units for columns if needed.

I'm assuming a strip light would produce a wider spread, hence the need to purchase less units...

 

[StNic54]

I've worked a lot of big-budget weddings, and here are some things to think about when purchasing units:

Pin Spots - nothing fancy unless you have to be able to change colors during the reception, which is rare. Pinspots are cheap, for a reason, and all you need is dimming, the ability to put gel on it, and call it a day. If you feel it's completely necessary to go LED for pins, then just get a big batch of them that were manufactured at the same time so the led's match the best. Honestly, you don't need a ton of output for this.

Uplights - I would suggest going wireless/battery, no matter which stories you've heard, because it'll save you an incredible amount of time (cables, taping, etc). That being said, if you do purchase units that are hard-wired, make sure to ask your dealer about the uses of proprietary cable. I've used extensively the Chauvet Illuminarc outdoor LED fixtures, and it's simply annoying to have all that specialty cable that comes with it, rather than normal edison and dmx. Also, see about LED's that don't all lead back to one brain - another cable frenzy for special events when one box controls 12 LED's separately. The ideal scenario is jumping power and dmx from one unit to the next down a line, flat out. That being said, if you have LED's that were produced by different manufacturers, or even in different time frames, you'll see over time that the LED's never really match up from unit to unit, and you'll pull your hair out trying to make them match.

Chauvet Well Lights - battery operated, wireless, with a mirror finish and movable led face plate. I think they are great for high-end events, and are heavy enough not to steal (easily)
Chauvet Colorado and Illuminarc Line - waterproof is something to consider (rain, wine, beer), and they are very punchy - I've lit up plenty of 60ft palm trees with these
Hanson Systems LEDs - newer company, very slim profile, wireless/battery unit perfect for intimate events

All these units are under $1k a piece, and the output is very solid for what you are doing. You can always spend more money, but I would take baby steps first.

Oh, and do realize that you don't sound like a snob - most of us have worked an expensive event from time to time.

 

[pmolsonmus]

I have had good results using Longman LEDs. Cost effective and work well for what you are describing. Sheer fabric and 2 bricks or even par cans mounted can create a great look.

 

[derekleffew]

... I'm assuming a strip light would produce a wider spread, hence the need to purchase less units...

Most likely untrue. Most LED striplight s need to be placed continuously end-to-end for complete coverage. Usually when uplighting for an event, one is trying to enhance (or create) architectural features--column s, pilaster s, cove s, and the like. Not wash the entire wall with color.
.

 

[jjhall5150]

Most likely untrue. Most LED striplight s need to be placed continuously end-to-end for complete coverage. Usually when uplighting for an event, one is trying to enhance (or create) architectural features--column s, pilaster s, cove s, and the like. Not wash the entire wall with color.
.

That's good to know.....

Chauvet Well Lights - battery operated, wireless, with a mirror finish and movable led face plate. I think they are great for high-end events, and are heavy enough not to steal (easily)
Chauvet Colorado and Illuminarc Line - waterproof is something to consider (rain, wine, beer), and they are very punchy - I've lit up plenty of 60ft palm trees with these
Hanson Systems LEDs - newer company, very slim profile, wireless/battery unit perfect for intimate events

The Chauvet well lights look nice, not too sure I'm crazy about the exterior housing though, not exactly the most attractive looking unit. Though, I'm sure they didn't have weddings in mind when they were designed. The ColorADO units seem to fit the bill but I would like to check and see what Hanson Systems offers.

What do you guys use to compare output rating other than 10mm, 3w, 4w, etc......Is there an accurate specification that can be used for a better rule of thumb???

 

[len]

I'm not a big fan of buying something for single use. I want something with more flexibility. And while battery power/wireless data sound nice, I find that I wouldn't use them as much as I thot, especially for all the trouble they create. I've demo-d 15 or 20 different products (name brand, knock-offs, etc.) looking for the ability to produce the right amber that my clients want. No led has been able to do that (even with an amber or white diode) so I still use a conventional par and gel when they want that.

Also on the wireless front, I just bot a AmericanDJ wireless system. Tried it in the shop, no line of sight, 40' distance, transmitter on one side of my cable rack, receiver on the other, and it worked fine. Took it to a job, and at 50' WITH line of sight, couldn't get the units to work together. We didn't have time to troubleshoot so I ended up running cable. And I'll wager that even with wireless systems that are much more expensive, you'll still have more problems than they can overcome in most instances. Sometimes making things too cutting edge makes things too complicated, and it's just better to get back to basics.

 

[jjhall5150]

I also do a lot of wedding/sweet 16 lighting. For uplighting I use Colorkey (ColorKey - StagePar Mini - TC3-7), but mainly because I'm a dealer. There are probably better fixtures out there for only slightly more money, but these fit my needs and are small enough to be unobtrusive. I do plan on purchasing some battery operated wireless DMX LED's next year, but I still haven't found anything worth buying.

I'm seeing prices around the $200+ range for those units. That's pretty good for a 3W.

Do you have any action pictures? That's right around what I would be looking for if the quality was there

Jim

 

[StNic54]

Also on the wireless front, I just bot a AmericanDJ wireless system. Tried it in the shop, no line of sight, 40' distance, transmitter on one side of my cable rack, receiver on the other, and it worked fine. Took it to a job, and at 50' WITH line of sight, couldn't get the units to work together. We didn't have time to troubleshoot so I ended up running cable. And I'll wager that even with wireless systems that are much more expensive, you'll still have more problems than they can overcome in most instances. Sometimes making things too cutting edge makes things too complicated, and it's just better to get back to basics.

I've been using wireless DMX since 2004, and the earlier models did have a lot of issues being faulty with almost no direct interference (you could tie a string from the transmitter to the receiver). Microwaves and radio waves can affect them in such a manner. Also, you purchased American DJ, which is usually the lowest common denominator in the realm of technology. I'm not surprised it failed. The W-DMX that is Swedish-built is quite solid, as well as City Theatrical's ShowDMX, and the changes they've made are phenomenal - no more dip switches, syncing units is a single button press, and scanning for open frequencies automatically makes it a must. If you go the wireless route, do a thorough distance test out on a football field, see how it reacts in large ballrooms, and make sure you've always got spare dmx if you do have issues. The biggest issue I've seen with wireless dmx in the last few years is antennae breakage due to product design.

 

[len]

High end products would be nice, but they just don't make economic sense for me. A $200 risk makes sense for the amount of times I would use it. And chances are 50/50 it could have been a user error.

 

[Kelite]

I am looking into purchasing second hand units for around the $500 range, to get started. I may lean toward something like the Chauvet COLORado 1 units. Just want to make sure it doesn't produce the dreaded "Halo" effect in the middle of the wall.

The Apollo HP3 has 90W of power using RGB single die emitters, eliminating the halo and/or 'Skittles' effect often discussed within LED wash threads. The HP3 fixture is available from a variety of retail showroom/online retailers.

 

[jjhall5150]

So for wedding lighting, I know that the entry level 10mm models are not very powerful.

Based on others experience would a 1w or 3w unit be sufficient? At what point does the output become overkill?

Would it be better to look at more fixtures and lower wattage, or less fixtures with higher wattage. There should be a balance between the color creating an ambient effect, but not too bright as to be distracting.


Keith...I'll definately add those to my "check em out" list

 

[techieman33]

What are you lighting? Are we talking about 10ft walls? 30ft columns? Washing ceilings?