Wireless Which direction to go?

[jcslighting]

I am the TD of a theatre looking to upgrade some wireless mikes/elements. We purchased a used rack of 12 sennheiser wireless last summer but most of the elements were toast. We purchased one new countryman b3 for our lead female actor to use and had no complaints or issues but are now looking to add or replace up to 15 elements.

My question is really two-fold.
1. Which is really better for theatre use - headworn lavaliers or the over the ear style - essentially b3 vs. e6? I am looking for real experience examples. We have a rather small theatre and the farthest seat is less than say 70' from the stage - most seats are less than say 50' - so appearance does matter. We do basically summer stock musicals and a Christmas production so the mikes have to handle multiple users and some singers who sing really loud and only need a mike to project dialogue.
2. Is countryman the best option for this at all? Is there a better alternative to the b3 or e6, staying at or below their price point?

Personally, I rarely deal alot with theatre sound, I do some live musical acts here and there but that is a bit easier due to stand mikes etc. I like the headworn b3 for it's look but some of the sound folks we have hired swear that it will be louder if we stick it on the actor's face. I agree it's usually louder but it also sounds muffled or tends to distort if they yell or sing too loudly. My thought was a mix of both styles to accomodate everyone somewhat, especially in the case of say a bald actor who has no hair to hide the mike or cable.

Presently the mikes are a mix of cheap $35 ebay lavs with a few cheap over the ears (chamelions?) Neither have very stout cables and that is the problem- most crackle or fail at the point of attachment into the mini jack. The b3 has been solid through 2 show runs with no crackles or issues. Some of the $35 mikes only last a few shows and then they die.

Our board is looking for an estimate to replace anywhere from 8 to 15 mikes with a budget of up $2000- $5000 depending upon my suggestions so money isn't a huge concern at this point.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions and comments.

 

[themuzicman]

My question is really two-fold.
1. Which is really better for theatre use - headworn lavaliers or the over the ear style - essentially b3 vs. e6? I am looking for real experience examples. We have a rather small theatre and the farthest seat is less than say 70' from the stage - most seats are less than say 50' - so appearance does matter. We do basically summer stock musicals and a Christmas production so the mikes have to handle multiple users and some singers who sing really loud and only need a mike to project dialogue.

I try to stay away from ear worn completely unless the shows aesthetic asks for it, or if I have a bald actor or a lot of hard brimmed hats. I find that most often I am taking the bare microphone element and using either elastic or toupee clips and bobby pins to stick it through the actors hair and on to the center of their forehead. Much easier to hide this way.

2. Is countryman the best option for this at all? Is there a better alternative to the b3 or e6, staying at or below their price point?

The B3's are really the most inexpensive for a usable quality. They are reliable -- what you trade off in audio quality you gain in ridiculous ruggedness with the B3's. Budget for spares -- remember lav microphones are considered perishable items, it's not a question of If but rather When will the microphones die on you whether it be water damage to the capsule via sweat or shorting out at the connector due to normal wear and tear. I budget between 70-100 performances with normal lavs, but you can get more through more delicate treatment.

 

[MarshallPope]

I definitely agree with preferring lavs in the hair or on a low profile DIY ear rig, for purely aesthetic reasons. Sure, you will get better sound from a mic just on the corner of the mouth, but especially with your 70' max, it looks much neater for the mic to be hidden in the hair or right at the sideburn area.

One suggestion that I will make - if you go with the lavs for a show where you need to switch mics among actors, it would likely be easier on you if you had enough mic elements to wire everyone who will need one pre-show and then just swap out transmitters as needed.

 

[carproelsofly]

As far as brands go, depending on the rest of your system you might not notice any quality difference among any of the mics at a given price point. In my experience, it's when you jump from one price point to the next when you start to get major sonic differences.

So: knowing how much money you have to spend, make a reasonable guess at how many elements you'd need at one time, then factor in having something like one spare per five or six elements, then factor in losing at least two elements per show run to abuse/damage/etc. Push those numbers up against an educated guess about how long it will be before you see any more money for microphones. That'll tell you your price point per element. If you have a local retailer, see what they can do for you. You may get a nice discount since you're buying a bunch at once, which would allow you to upgrade in quality or quantity.

Dressing-wise, it's an aesthetic choice as much as anything. I find that "kids today" (including most patrons, directors and designers) are accustomed to seeing the little boom arm of the E6s. If you're not in that situation, go with the lavs, and get a few earpieces for the hair-challenged. In general, though, I've heard MUCH better sound from mounting a lav at the center of the forehead than plastering it to someone's cheek.

FWIW, the easiest mount I've used is a loop of stout elastic thread (comes in black and white, and the white can be colored to match hair color). Turn two clove hitches around the element/cable. The loop of elastic goes onto the performer's head like a headband, with the first hitch at the base of the skull, holding the cable in place, and the second hitch at the hairline, holding the element in place. For best results, the element should be about 3/4" to 1" past that second hitch - keeps it off the skin a little for better sweat management. Fluff the hair over the elastic and you're done! A small piece of tape can go on the cable at the neck if needed to hold the whole rig in place (usually only needed for heavy dancing/fighting).

HTH!

 

[jcslighting]

Dressing-wise, it's an aesthetic choice as much as anything. I find that "kids today" (including most patrons, directors and designers) are accustomed to seeing the little boom arm of the E6s. If you're not in that situation, go with the lavs, and get a few earpieces for the hair-challenged. In general, though, I've heard MUCH better sound from mounting a lav at the center of the forehead than plastering it to someone's cheek.

I think this is the real reason I wanted to get some additional opinions. Let me explain....2 summers ago we hired a theatrically trained sound tech from a local college who was majoring in theatre tech. He did the hair/hidden look and really only did enough mike gain to blend with the orchestra or enhance weaker actors - the show sounded very good. Enter the issues- this past summer and again for the Christmas show, we hired 2 different sound techs with experience only in recording or church (southern gospel quartet) experience. Both of these guys thought the hair thing was not as effective even though our summer director didn't like the look or the sound quality of the booms. By taping the boom to the face he thought it made the mike sound too "microphony". We fought over the whole idea with the sound person who even told us "this ain't Broadway!". He did end up complying with the director during the tech process but once the director left and the show opened, he did it 'his' way.

As a result of these two folks, some on our board think they are correct even though the sound and look was way better 2 years ago. My plan is to introduce the 'evidence' from this forum to aid in my case. BUT if I am wrong about the hair mounted idea I wanted to know about it. Really this is one of the reasons I hate theatrical sound - too many variables.

Thanks for the replies so far!

 

[josh88]

Sound could go both ways. You could have someone who's a good tech make either set ups sound great, and you can make either placements sound terrible. I prefer the hair unless there's some reason why it won't work.


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[TimmyP1955]

Our primaries are E6. Our secondaries are Microphone Madness. Other than the very wimpy ear loops (they say you can request stiffer) we are pleased with the performance of the MM. In fact a few actors have sounded better on them than on the E6.

 

[Tex]

As a result of these two folks, some on our board think they are correct even though the sound and look was way better 2 years ago.

Well, there's part of your problem! I watched a board destroy a very successful theatre because they thought they could/should make artistic decisions. Took less than two years. I don't understand why boards don't trust the people they hire to make those decisions.