the dark side of entertainment

This is the most recent article which I have read speaking of rather disturbing effects on those working in the industry. http://m.theage.com.au/victoria/stu...e-entertainment-industry-20150909-gjinxp.html

Wow. That's difficult to read... and somehow not surprising. Friends, if you are struggling with thoughts of suicide talk to someone. You are not alone. You have no idea how many people around you care and would be happy to help. If nothing else talk to someone here on CB.

ruinexplorer said:

This is the most recent article which I have read speaking of rather disturbing effects on those working in the industry. http://m.theage.com.au/victoria/stu...e-entertainment-industry-20150909-gjinxp.html

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I call total BS on this "study". 2900 people is not enough to even come close to a real study, especially when the study is bias. Web surveys about a given subject always bring out more people who have more in line with that subject. 1 in 12 attempted suicide???? Really???? I have a very long list of connections across the entire country and world. These range from Broadway SM's to carps in Arkansas to people bouncing around Asia. I personally know no one in our line of work who has committed suicide. I know of no instance of members here on CB who have committed suicide. I have 100 people on my call list. None of them have been taken off of it due to suicide. A few have been taken off due to prison time.... but... thats another story. Why am I not seeing the 1 in 12? I know a lot more people attempt then actually go through with it, but... really? 1 in 12? Also, the number of times they mentioned "roadies" makes me wonder if these people even knew who they were interviewing. That phrase is dead.

Sorry if I sound insensitive here, I know that this industry is stressful and can cause all kinds of mental problems. I just can't get over that 1 in 12 number.

Agree with Footer.

40 years in a business where everybody knows everybody, where it is easy to keep track of where people are working and I have never heard of anyone whom I have known professionally, commiting suicide.

I too call this a BS story.

As I stated, this is not the first article I have seen on this subject. However, as with many articles where the sources are not stated, it is difficult to see how accurate it is. The assumption that it has a bias may or may not have relevance. It did mention that it includes performers, not just technicians, as well as the study being conducted in Australia, where things might be a bit different. I can't say how many I have known who may have had thoughts or attempts of suicide. It isn't something that often comes up in normal conversation. However, people will often declare their innermost feelings when they believe to be anonymous. Just because you haven't personally been told or encountered this doesn't mean that it isn't present. How many were shocked by Robin Williams? Even those who were close to him didn't know.

Personally, I'd rather let everyone know that they can voice their feelings before they may actually attempt something. They may or may not want to talk to someone they know due to the fact that it can potentially be thrown back at them. There are those who are so insensitive that they basically throw up a wall between themselves and those who need their help. I personally don't ever want to be a wall builder. I'd rather be available to help everyone that I can.

On a sad note, I have worked with three people in this industry who have committed suicide. This is a very broad issue having to do with access to mental health services and a culture willing to realize that it is ok to ask for help, not a weakness.

The performing side of things I would heartily agree and know of a handful professional musician friends who have dealt with such demons. The pressure to perform coupled with anxiety and fast-paced lifestyle (and often crap pay while you're trying to make it on top) is enough to drive most of them to drink or find relief in drugs, and this is pretty well documented problem in professional symphonies. I faced that to a certain degree when I was performing in the pit with an opera company and local orchestras/bands, the articles below strike a strong chord with me (no pun intended). I don't know of many techs that would fit this billing, but mental illness is a serious issue. If you know anybody who is even just hinting at being depressed or makes off-hand comments, do not hesitate to question this further! Asking a suicidal person if they have suicidal thoughts will not put that bug in their head, because it's already there. Asking them helps them to get the bug out. Speak up!

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/20/stage-fright-addiction-classical-music-alcohol

http://www.theguardian.com/music/20...usic-alcohol-substance-abuse-addicts-symphony

http://entertainmentassist.org.au/v...ds/files/Phase 2 Executive Summary -Final.pdf
Here's the published findings, so I don't think we can say the article has no sources. Are there problems with the science used to come to these conclusions? Perhaps. I think Footer and SteveB make valid points. I'd encourage two things:
1. If you or someone you know is having a problem with depression, or is thinking of suicide- get help. Help your friend get help. There are answers. For me, the solution wasn't talking to a shrink although I tried that regularly for several months. But it might work for you; maybe like me, it was a decent start that led you to what does work for you. But above all else there's nothing wrong with asking for help.
It takes work, I don't know if it ever completely goes away- but I know this much: I'm in control of it now, not the other way around. There's no denying this is a rough way to make a living, and it does screw with "normal life".
2. Just because it's a published study, doesn't mean it met any of the qualifications of the scientific method. A lot of companies want to sell you things with "science" based on a study of 20 people that they paid for and expect you to believe that's enough people to be indicative of a population. I hope it's really not 1 in 12. But really, 1 in (whatever amount) is too much.

Rollins handles it best, in Talking From The Box.
"I don't know you but I love you. I love your life. I don't even know you and I love your life. Because you've got one."

What Rigger? said:

there's nothing wrong with asking for help.
It takes work, I don't know if it ever completely goes away- but I know this much: I'm in control of it now, not the other way around.

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I find this to be the most important, or the thing that stuck with me. I know that I don't post all that often, however I guess this got personal, as I am one of the (many on CB, I'm sure, sadly) who would be in that category.

I will agree, however, that 1 in 12 does seem... a little bit high... I would fully believe that 1 in 12 have had some form, possibly quite mild, of mental illness. But to say that 1 in 12 have attempted is not a good representation of the actual situation. I think that a lot - most, unfortunately, of us do know somebody who has attempted. It's unfortunate that it can be so easy to hide.

I have no doubt that we as a society need to have a conversation about mental illness and how to deal with it and how to spot it and how it's not something to be ashamed of or something that we should be afraid of. Yes, it sucks, but that doesn't make it something that we need to be afraid of or to demonize, which I'm afraid happens all to often. But that's not just this industry. That's this world.

To @What Rigger? - I'm glad, overly glad, even though we've never met- that you've found what you needed. To anyone who suffers from any mental illness - I'm sorry. To everyone - there's always an answer, and sometimes that answer needs to be 911.

There are a lot of high school and college students here on CB. The statistics say 20% of you have seriously considered suicide. 575,000 of you will make an attempt every year. Saddest of all, 12 young people die of suicide every day.

You feel like you are alone. Does anyone care? Would anyone even notice if you were gone? Would you be better off dead? Would the world be a better place without me? These are common thoughts and you are not alone.

You may be so deep in your pain and depression that you can not see them, but there are many people around you who care. There are people in your life who would run to your rescue if they only knew your pain. Talk to someone you trust. Get help, fight for yourself.
You are worth it.

@What Rigger? Is one of the coolest, toughest, guys I've ever met. If he can come here and admit that he has struggled with suicide you can reach out to someone in your life for help.

I spent the last 4 years working in colleges. Of the 200 some students I've had 3 were sent home for mysterious "illnesses" after visibly struggling with depression, and 2 admitted prior attempts. That's just what I know. I was their teacher... so I'm sure there was plenty I dont know.

Footer said:

I have a very long list of connections across the entire country and world. These range from Broadway SM's to carps in Arkansas to people bouncing around Asia. I personally know no one in our line of work who has committed suicide. I know of no instance of members here on CB who have committed suicide. I have 100 people on my call list. None of them have been taken off of it due to suicide.

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SteveB said:

Agree with Footer.

40 years in a business where everybody knows everybody, where it is easy to keep track of where people are working and I have never heard of anyone whom I have known professionally, commiting suicide.

I too call this a BS story.

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I think you guys need to stop and realize that you and your colleagues and friends have been lucky - I myself have attempted more than once. Were I successful, you could put a feather in your hat.

We work crazy hours, we separate from friends and family for long chunks of time. We end up in job situations we can't change. We suffer injuries that make us worry about our futures in our careers. We work with people who find taking the time to care for our mental and physical health a waste of time. All of this in close quarters.
I find the results of the study to be unsurprising, regardless of the dubious sounding quality of the study.

Thank you for those who shared their experiences. I think that we all can easily overlook symptoms of depression in our friends and colleagues. Know that if you have the need for help, you don't have to put it out on an open forum. Please do reach out to someone.

I think it is important to note the study has come from down here in Aus.
The entertainment industry has lost more of our own than we should over the past few years to suicide, and that has probably spurred this discussion.

I think there are a number of factors making it a more germane issue here, the costs of living being a significant one.
Things like housing affordability are significant issues down here, and the road lifestyle does not help with building the stability and savings for a transition to "retirement" and that can be a significant source of anxiety for people.
The Aussie culture I think is also partly to blame, but that is changing slowly, mental health has become a much more talked about issue over the past ~10 years, and that can only be a positive step forward to help reshape things like the stigma that remains around mental health.

The message is the same though the world over, you're not alone and help is out there.
If there's any doubt, the stats are that something like 45% of the population will experience a mental health condition at some stage in their life...

Chris15 said:

I think it is important to note the study has come from down here in Aus.
The entertainment industry has lost more of our own than we should over the past few years to suicide, and that has probably spurred this discussion.

I think there are a number of factors making it a more germane issue here, the costs of living being a significant one.
Things like housing affordability are significant issues down here, and the road lifestyle does not help with building the stability and savings for a transition to "retirement" and that can be a significant source of anxiety for people.
The Aussie culture I think is also partly to blame, but that is changing slowly, mental health has become a much more talked about issue over the past ~10 years, and that can only be a positive step forward to help reshape things like the stigma that remains around mental health.

The message is the same though the world over, you're not alone and help is out there.
If there's any doubt, the stats are that something like 45% of the population will experience a mental health condition at some stage in their life...

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Chris, that's a great big fistful of context right there. Thanks for adding that.

mikeydoesstuff said:

We work crazy hours, we separate from friends and family for long chunks of time. We end up in job situations we can't change. We suffer injuries that make us worry about our futures in our careers. We work with people who find taking the time to care for our mental and physical health a waste of time. All of this in close quarters.
I find the results of the study to be unsurprising, regardless of the dubious sounding quality of the study.

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Those that blithely say, "Talk to somebody...", probably have never had any sessions with a "therapist". The amount of time and money spent talking about nothing and solving nothing before they allow you to discuss your real issues is staggering.

Reggie said:

Those that blithely say, "Talk to somebody...", probably have never had any sessions with a "therapist".

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" Somebody " could include a close friend, family member, mentor, teacher, former teacher, clergy, or even the suicide hotline (in the US it's 1-800-273-8255 24/7/365)... There are a lot of "somebodies" out there who care about you and can start the process of helping you for free.

Yes there's a good chance that you will need some professional help that costs money eventually. However, we are all surrounded by people who care and would be devastated without us. Just knowing that and connecting with someone who really cares is a big first step.

There are even ways to get that professional help for free or reduced prices. If one of my students came for help there are many options to help them to get help they can afford... Including the fact that I would happily chip in personally to help pay for it. Ability to pay should never be an obstacle to getting suicide prevention help.

First step in helping others would be not being so totally engrossed in our own lives that we fail to notice the issues brewing in our friends and co-workers. Before you tell someone on Monday morning about your kids soccer game, you might want to take 30 seconds and make some observations about your friend/co-workers appearance and demeanor. This is where many people fail at being a friend. They fail to notice and they assume that there is someone in that person's life they can reach out to.

Most guys can't/won't admit to having an issue, it's a weakness.

Reggie said:

First step in helping others would be not being so totally engrossed in our own lives that we fail to notice the issues brewing in our friends and co-workers. Before you tell someone on Monday morning about your kids soccer game, you might want to take 30 seconds and make some observations about your friend/co-workers appearance and demeanor. This is where many people fail at being a friend. They fail to notice and they assume that there is someone in that person's life they can reach out to.
Most guys can't/won't admit to having an issue, it's a weakness.

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While yes we all could use a little more awareness, suicide prevention is far more complicated than just awareness of how a co-worker's day is going. Suicide is accompanied by severe depression and/or complex forms of mental illness. There are many symptoms that people hide really well and are often extremely difficult to detect, especially in teens and college students. The majority of younger people who attempt suicide hide it so well no one knows there was a problem. People who look and act depressed are often not in danger because they let their pain show, feel it, deal with it, and get support because of that. Often the people in the most danger are the ones who seem to have it all together on the outside but are devastated on the inside. Thus as difficult as it may be to do, most people need to ask for help because they hide their torment too well.

That's a cop-out. It's not impossible, it may not be easy. People that say, "I had no idea... Would never have guessed in a million years that... ", after the fact, are giving themselves an "out" for being so self-centered, for not really caring. It's being concerned, interested, involved, obsevant of the day to day changes and nuances in words and actions of the people you work with or interact with daily. You can make a conclusion and enlist other co-workers to observe, confirm and approach these people with the suggestion to allow someone, maybe you, to help them.

I guess agree to disagree. Keep in mind that Tech Theater covers a wide array of different situations. Those of us working in schools have hundreds of angsty young adults that we interact with on a daily basis while we have to worry about our lesson plans, pdp, slo, ppg, oh and that's right theatrical productions. Calling us self-centered for not being able to save the world is a little harsh. Clearly, I know what to look out for and do my best to let my students know that they are supported, but I LITERALLY can only do so much.

I will say though, that since this thread popped up, I have made a concerted effort to reach out to students that seem to be having 'off' days. Sometimes it is easy to forget how much pressure our young people are put under.