Venue Spot Booth Guard rails

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JonathanHarpur

JonathanHarpur

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Hey all -

We're in the design phase of a new venue, and we're looking at engineered, permanent travel restraint in the spot booth, for its beam-side. The architects are currently suggesting a guard rail system (in front of the spots!) which will have obvious shadowing issues when trying to shine lights through 'em, but I think a better option over 2' pipe railings or glass could be an open-as-possible wire architectural mesh. Anybody having something similar in their venue and who wouldn't mind sharing photos and/or user feedback would be greatly appreciated. Or other suggestions!

TIA
 
GArrrrr. Search for...
ANSI E1.28 - 2022
ANSI E1.66 - 2020
 
I’ve done a few fall restraint designs recently for a spot positions that used fixed length lanyards, a waist belt, and an Anchorage that prevents the operator from getting near the fall hazard, allowing the area in front of the spot to remain unobstructed.
 
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egilson1 said:
I’ve done a few fall restraint designs recently for a spot positions that used fixed length lanyards, a waste belt, and ...
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When, not if, the time comes for me to have to wear a diaper to run a followspot, could someone please just go ahead and push me off the perch? Thanks.
 
Those ANSI references are excellent links, thank you.

My end goal here is to have a follow spot position which doesn't require operators in PPE, i.e. a permanent work platform with adequate guard rail and edge protection, and which has minimal visual obstructions.
Think "Wire Rope Grid", but vertical instead of horizontal. Ideally, a framed wall of such, about 8' tall and 24' wide. (Or the Blues Brothers' chickenwire-wrapped stage, but something you could safely throw yourself against, 60' up.)
 
JonathanHarpur said:
Hey all -

We're in the design phase of a new venue, and we're looking at engineered, permanent travel restraint in the spot booth, for its beam-side. The architects are currently suggesting a guard rail system (in front of the spots!) which will have obvious shadowing issues when trying to shine lights through 'em, but I think a better option over 2' pipe railings or glass could be an open-as-possible wire architectural mesh. Anybody having something similar in their venue and who wouldn't mind sharing photos and/or user feedback would be greatly appreciated. Or other suggestions!

TIA
Click to expand...
Is this a theater or what kind of venue, I dislike exposed spot booths if there are going to be people calling spots also on spots.
 
Remind the architects that the international building code allows exceptions in performance venues for things like balcony railing heights, so that complete views of the stage are not interfered with. You should be able to specify a railing that is lower than standard, so that a follow spot with ample height can work over it.
 
FMEng said:
Remind the architects that the international building code allows exceptions in performance venues for things like balcony railing heights, so that complete views of the stage are not interfered with. You should be able to specify a railing that is lower than standard, so that a follow spot with ample height can work over it.
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Regulations for balcony railings are not applicable here.

IBC 1030.17.3 allows sightline-constrained railings to be lower when immediately adjacent to seating. A followspot position is not immediately adjacent to seating.

Under IBC 1015.2, there are exceptions for stage/platforms for the utilization of special lighting or equipment, but that only means you don't need a guard for the purposes of building code. For compliance with OSHA, you would still need fall protection OR to comply with OSHA's guardrail requirements.

So a balcony railing in front of a seating area is treated quite differently than a catwalk or spot booth with reduced guards or no guards at all. That said -- if a spot booth is located behind the upper row of a balcony where falling out of the balcony would be only a couple/few feet, that's another story. My assumption though is that based on the question being asked, there is a sizable fall distance out of that spot booth.
 
The way I am visualizing your problem I think bringing the rail towards the spots in a U shape might give you clearance to do what you want. Leave the platform as it is and just move the guard rail in front of the spot in until the body of the spot clears it. Then swoop the guardrail back out in a steep S shape so the operator has room to stand next to the spot while letting the nose of the spot hang over the rail. A standard spot at adult operating height should be able to clear a standard hand rail.

Or alternately since only the top cord of the guardrail is an issue, put in a standard hard pipe guardrail with 2ft wide notches in the top cord at the spot positions and replace the top cord with a tension wire in those locations.
 
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To answer some of the question above, and to add a bit more detail - It's a sub-900 soft seated venue, with the spot booth suspended in the catwalks some 10' to 15' above the balcony seating. Throw distance from the booth to the apron is going to be approximately 70', and the spots are, for the moment, slated as Lycian M2 medium throws lamped at 2500W.

So has anyone ever seen work area edge protection that was compliant but neither glass nor an irritatingly opaque guard rail, either in your home venues or in the wild?
Otherwise, it's looking like the "tensioned wire rope"-style guard rail might be our best option here. I might be getting myself a 24'x8' egg slicer.
 
Have you looked at it in section to see what kind of angle of attack you need to the stage? That'll tell you whether you have a problem or not based on how high you need to put the spot on the stand in order to get shoot over the railing and if that exceeds reasonable ergonomics.

I wouldn't lean too hard on the option of a mesh-style guard rail. While the spotlight won't degrade noticeably shooting through that, it'll be tough for a spot op looking through the mesh to discern their targets. I'd have to dig through the codes to confirm, but you also likely would still need an upper handrail because people need something they can grip onto. And even though it's not an IBC-required guardrail, it's effectively an OSHA-required guardrail if you don't have fall protection.

Honestly, if you're in the design phase of this venue, you should just look at an enclosed spot booth. If you want to use Lycian M2's just 10-15ft away from audience members, those are going to throw off a lot of noise and the only way you can mitigate that is to put them behind glass in an enclosed booth. Or you should be considering LED -- but a spot booth solves both your noise and fall protection problems. If an enclosed spot booth is architecturally impossible -- it's the modern era -- there are remote followspot options that aren't particularly cheap, but may be cheaper than the cost of a spot booth.
 
MNicolai said:
Have you looked at it in section to see what kind of angle of attack you need to the stage? That'll tell you whether you have a problem or not based on how high you need to put the spot on the stand in order to get shoot over the railing and if that exceeds reasonable ergonomics.

I wouldn't lean too hard on the option of a mesh-style guard rail. While the spotlight won't degrade noticeably shooting through that, it'll be tough for a spot op looking through the mesh to discern their targets. I'd have to dig through the codes to confirm, but you also likely would still need an upper handrail because people need something they can grip onto. And even though it's not an IBC-required guardrail, it's effectively an OSHA-required guardrail if you don't have fall protection.

Honestly, if you're in the design phase of this venue, you should just look at an enclosed spot booth. If you want to use Lycian M2's just 10-15ft away from audience members, those are going to throw off a lot of noise and the only way you can mitigate that is to put them behind glass in an enclosed booth. Or you should be considering LED -- but a spot booth solves both your noise and fall protection problems. If an enclosed spot booth is architecturally impossible -- it's the modern era -- there are remote followspot options that aren't particularly cheap, but may be cheaper than the cost of a spot booth.
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I've rendered the venue in ETC's Augment3d using the currently-at-60% paperwork, and there are issues we'll be speaking with the architects about, in regards to sightlines.
As for OSHA requirements, tensioned wire rope will meet their requirements for guard rails in a non-public space. I believe architechtural mesh, so long as it meets the same ratings, will also qualify as engineered travel restraint.
FOr the record, this will be in a footprint about 8'x24 with a front face of 8'x24' - so we have the potential option of a 4-spot call, maybe.

And yes, we're very likely to have sound and light leakage issues, but I think the era of follow spots is drawing to a close, and we'll very likely transition to a "single automated fixture, dedicated but networked console" operator for followspot calls some time down the road. We'll sort that out later. In the meantime, though, our current M2s will be ported over to the new venue and phased out.
 
Did the architect not hire a theatre consultant? I’m assuming you are doing all this coordination and it’s eating into your day? I would have the conversation with them that it’s in their and your best interest to do that. If you’re observing these issues that the architect is creating I can guarantee there are A LOT more you’re not aware of. Plus when I was running a venue I wouldn’t have the time for that job and dealing with all of this. Look at the American Society of Theatre Consultants (ASTC) website. I would direct the architect there to know they have a lot of options.
 
I work in an arena where the corner spots shoot through chain link. I do like that the chainlink forces the entire spotlight to be over the platform. Spots overhanging audiances scare me....i've seen gel frames launch out of a spot and land far below.
 
Is this a job for remote controlled follow spots?

I mean, they just used a dozen of them *on the Grammys*, so...
 
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