Final decisions and pricing on a new board.

[CSCTech]

Well we have been looking to replace our Status for about 3 years and we might be able to get the school to buy it for us now.
Of course they wont give is much even if I spend hours explaining that a more expensive board will last longer and we will have more headroom and be able to expand more etc.
So anyways I have been looking at three boards inparticular, an ETC Element 60 250 Channel , Strand Lighting Preset Palette II (Would like the 96 channel but 64 is alright as long as it still has 96+ control channels) And an ETC Express 48-96.

We pretty much need a site that sells a board that fits our criteria for the best price.
Most the boards I have seen are around 4,500-5,500 so I was wondering if there was some good company out there that sells them cheaper.

We are looking for something that-


At least one monitor display

96+ Control Channels

Minimum 48 channel board 96 would be nice

A limited but there moving or led program if we decide to expand from conventionals

Separate Sub faders, we use about 15 a show so we do not need to many.


And that is pretty much it : )

 

[fredthe]

Both the Element and Preset Palette are good boards, and will do what you want. Rather than searching the internet for a low price, I'd suggest that you contact dealers in your area and see what they can offer. It would be good to get a demo, as each has it's own personality. Additionally, the dealer can spend some time showing you the board's features, sometimes really neat things aren't obvious (like putting R/G/B gels in you cyc lights, and then using the color picker feature of the board.)

The Express is no longer manufactured, and won't give you the ability to easily expand beyond conventionals in the future. Although they are available used for a good price, I don't think they are a good long-term investment.

-Fred

 

[SHARYNF]

You might also look at the ION system, which has more expandability

Here is an interesting review of the Element

First impression: ETC Element Console Review | shocksolution.com: scientific computing, modeling, and simulation


Sharyn

 

[gafftaper]

Have you read my article in the wiki on how pricing works? It's here.

Beyond that call all the local dealers and get price quotes. Check with some of the national dealers. Need help finding dealers see this article in the wiki.

 

[Les]

If budget is a huge concern, (and it usually is) and you find yourself having to downgrade to a second-tier manufacturer, I would recommend the Cooper/EDI Bijou 48/96 or Bijou Plus (adds moving light control). These consoles have 96 faders on the front panel, 2 sets of crossfaders, and a monitor output. For all practical purposes, they don't operate much different than an Express, and are much better than Leviton's current offerings, IMO.

Zero 88: Product Detail for Bijou and Bijou Plus

 

[CSCTech]

Alright, I will give a call to all the local suppliers I can find, we have non currently. We get bulbs and gels from Immedia but they don't carry much else as for lighting.

Will type up a nice big overview of our current board and then list all the qoutes I can get.

 

[CSCTech]

Les,
Thanks, I will look at those, what do they useally go for?

 

[CSCTech]

Sorry for triple post-

Les,
What company really owns the Bijou? Is it Cooper Control, GreenGate, EDI, or Zero 88? I cannot seem to find the manufactures website.

I would definitely be interest in the Bijou if it is truly cheaper then other boards.

 

[icewolf08]

Alright, I will give a call to all the local suppliers I can find, we have non currently. We get bulbs and gels from Immedia but they don't carry much else as for lighting.

Will type up a nice big overview of our current board and then list all the qoutes I can get.

You are in W. Mass., there are plenty of suppliers/dealers around! Barbizon has a location in Woburn ( I know, not W. Mass, but MA is not that big). There is also High Output in Boston as well as ALPS. It is even worth calling Production Advantage as they are in VT which also is not that far away and they are great people. No matter what, you are going to want to make your purchase through a local company if you can. You may not be able to seeing as you are a school and you will have to bid out the job. However, using a local company will make getting support easier and will help you develop a relationship with them which is really important.

You won't need to tell them anything about your current board, just that you are looking for a new system and what you need it to do. Also, DO NOT buy anything without getting a demo first. All of those dealers should be able to send out a console and a person to do a demo for you in your space and actually look at your current setup and help you make an educated decision. The demo shouldn't cost you anything and it is really a must when making such a large investment.

I will also echo the sentiment of not bothering to look at Express anymore. It was a great console and very prolific, but it is obsolete and not worth investing in. It may be better than what you have, but it is the same era console and won't really put you in that much of a better position.

 

[CSCTech]

Alright, thanks IceWolf : )

I am very interested in the Bijou now xD It has some cool and more, forgetting the word, Practical? features.
Theres an Except button so you can have a command like-
[23] [THRU] [57] [EXCEPT] [35] [AT] [FL]
And an And button so you can do something like-
[23] [AT] [95] [AND] [43] [AT] [40]
Instead of
[23] [AT] [95]
Enter, Clear, Clear
[43] [AT] 40

Maybe all new boards do this and I am just stuck in the past xD But I am quit eager to find a price for this console.

 

[chris325]

You might also look at the ION system, which has more expandability

Here is an interesting review of the Element

First impression: ETC Element Console Review | shocksolution.com: scientific computing, modeling, and simulation


Sharyn

I would think that an Ion would be overkill for an auditorium upgrading from a Status needing more than 100 channels, unless there are big plans for lots of movers and dmx toys. Also, it would be tough to find one under $10,000, and that's not including at least one necessary universal fader wing. The Element 40 with 250 channels starts somewhere in the 4,000 to 5,000 range, and has moving light control if you want to invest in a few movers. From my experiences playing with it, it's got some great features (the knob is much better than having to double-press a softkey just to switch submaster pages on the Innovator 600) and seems like a good replacement for an Express or an Innovator, despite the harsh review provided.

 

[Les]

Alright, thanks IceWolf : )

I am very interested in the Bijou now xD It has some cool and more, forgetting the word, Practical? features.
Theres an Except button so you can have a command like-
[23] [THRU] [57] [EXCEPT] [35] [AT] [FL]
And an And button so you can do something like-
[23] [AT] [95] [AND] [43] [AT] [40]
Instead of
[23] [AT] [95]
Enter, Clear, Clear
[43] [AT] 40

Maybe all new boards do this and I am just stuck in the past xD But I am quit eager to find a price for this console.

It's definitely no Element/Palette/ION, but for a 'budget board' it gets the job done, and it has some handy features that you would not expect. Sorry I can't help you with a price quote, but you could probably get an MSRP from EDI directly. Note that it will be higher (maybe even significantly so) than the 'street price'.

EDI (Electronics Diversified, Inc) is now owned by Cooper Controls, who also owns Zero88. GreenGate seems to be a line of commercial control products that Cooper carries.

Cooper Controls: 1-800-553-3879. EDI has been in the game (albeit somewhat silently) for at least 30 years, and the old timers there are very nice and helpful.

Be prepared though, the Bijou may be priced comparably with the ETC Element, which may be why the Bijou isn't so popular. It wouldn't hurt to check though. I was lucky enough to snag my Bijou on eBay for $100 (needing a small amount of repair and not 100% cosmetically appealing).

 

[CSCTech]

Alright, I really cannot find any website that sells or gives demos of Bijous and I have checked all the stores CB suggests too :/

 

[derekleffew]

...What company really owns the Bijou? Is it Cooper Control, GreenGate, EDI, or Zero 88? I cannot seem to find the manufactures website.

I would definitely be interest in the Bijou if it is truly cheaper then other boards.

The Bijou is manufactured by EDI (Electronics Diversified Inc.) which was recently purchased by Cooper Controls, making Zero88 and EDI "sister" companies.
As for price, it's likely that the Bijou is in the same range as the Element and Basic Palette.

And an And button so you can do something like-
[23] [AT] [95] [AND] [43] [AT] [40]
...

Minor point. I'm not certain your example is true. The [And] key (or [+] key on many consoles) works for selecting non-contiguous channels, but I don't think one can send channels to different levels in a single command-line entry. Most designers don't think like that anyway.

I'm sure CB member Tracyu can help you out with any EDI-related questions.

Minor niggle about the Bijou: In 2010, do you really want a new console that depends on a 3.5" Floppy Disk Drive as its primary external storage media? Also, I don't believe there's any sort of OLE available for it.

 

[CSCTech]

Oh, Alright Derek, Was just assuming that from looking at other examples in the manual.

Found one place but no price.

And wow Les if we could find one for a few hundred we could get it through Drama or Music :/

 

[CSCTech]

-sigh-
Im at a loss, I can not seem to find any price for a Bijou or a company selling it. Maybe I am searching something wrong?

 

[SteveB]

One consideration, especially if you are not in a major rental market (major metro area), is ask some of the local lighting rental shops what THEY use, and/or are planning on purchasing. They often have some insight into what's reliable (for them). It also lets you know what's available as a rental if you have to swap out the in-house for a repair. This was one of the reasons I purchased Express consoles way back, as there were 4-5 rental shops in the NYC metro area that used that console and I could get a replacement. Turned out the Express was so reliable it was a moot point, and that brings up the issue of reliability, as nothing currently beats ETC and their technical support (though both MA and High End are very good).

And as an add'l vendor, BMI over in Queensbury, NY near Glens Falls. Great company to deal with.

 

[Tracyu]

Sorry for triple post-

Les,
What company really owns the Bijou? Is it Cooper Control, GreenGate, EDI, or Zero 88? I cannot seem to find the manufactures website.

I would definitely be interest in the Bijou if it is truly cheaper then other boards.

Hi there, I work for EDI and we recently discontinued the Bijou. Cooper Controls sells all of our gear along with zero 88 (which cooper owns).

In that price range I would look at Zero's Leap Frog or if you can live without the channel handles the Jester TL Xtra is a great board. I've had both of them here at the factory for over a year find them easy to program and operate. Check out the UK site:
Zero 88 Lighting. Lighting Control Systems for Entertainment, Stage, Film, Television, Theatre, Schools and Drama
they have a bit more info there along with links to there excellent on-line support center. Barbizon or ALPS would be the local dealers to talk too.
Best of luck with your new console,
Tracy Underhill
Vice President
Electronics Diversified LLC

 

[CSCTech]

Alright, Thank you. I looked at the ones listed and searched for theatrical lighting company's near us and there doesn't seem to be many, and the ones there are don't seem to have any or the right kind of lighting consoles :/

I sent an email to Super Tech Inc. About a qoute on a Bijou, and an Express, only because they had it on there website. Would be cool if they still had the Express in stock.
I know the Express is now outdated and not much room to expand but the thing is, we need a new console soon before our Status completely goes.
I am crossing my fingers for the Bijou, if not, maybe the Express if they really do have it. Then if not I will start looking for the cheapest dealer with a Element.

 

[CSCTech]

Hi there, I work for EDI and we recently discontinued the Bijou. Cooper Controls sells all of our gear along with zero 88 (which cooper owns).

In that price range I would look at Zero's Leap Frog or if you can live without the channel handles the Jester TL Xtra is a great board. I've had both of them here at the factory for over a year find them easy to program and operate. Check out the UK site:
Zero 88 Lighting. Lighting Control Systems for Entertainment, Stage, Film, Television, Theatre, Schools and Drama
they have a bit more info there along with links to there excellent on-line support center. Barbizon or ALPS would be the local dealers to talk too.
Best of luck with your new console,
Tracy Underhill
Vice President
Electronics Diversified LLC

Noo! It looekd really good too.
Ah well,
No wonder I couldn't find it anywhere. Hoping the place I emailed has one still and if not that and the Express I mentioned they had then it is either the Element Palette or new one I haven't seen.