Final decisions and pricing on a new board.
- Thread starterCSCTech
- Start date
CSCTech, I don't think you are understanding (or are choosing to wantonly disregard) the advice being offered.
1. Don't buy a discontinued console. I won't rehash those arguments.
2. If at all possible, buy from a local dealer, even if it's a few hundred dollars more. ACME Internet Stage Lighting.com is NOT going to be able to help you if you have a problem that needs immediate attention.
(As far as lighting controls, http://www.supertech-inc.com/index2.html 's website seems to be woefully out-dated, for all manufacturers.)
1. Don't buy a discontinued console. I won't rehash those arguments.
2. If at all possible, buy from a local dealer, even if it's a few hundred dollars more. ACME Internet Stage Lighting.com is NOT going to be able to help you if you have a problem that needs immediate attention.
(As far as lighting controls, http://www.supertech-inc.com/index2.html 's website seems to be woefully out-dated, for all manufacturers.)
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CSCTech
Active Member
Might of found a good one,
Anyone ever use a Leviton MC 24/48?
I know it's Leviton but they are still reliable are they not? And the board fits our needs and has room to expand with encoder wheels for different traits of DMX lighting.
And there is a store in New York, SLD Lighting, that has one listed online for $2,550 and we can probably get it down a little bit.
If this seems like a good board I can give them a call and see about getting us a demo of it.
Anyone ever use a Leviton MC 24/48?
I know it's Leviton but they are still reliable are they not? And the board fits our needs and has room to expand with encoder wheels for different traits of DMX lighting.
And there is a store in New York, SLD Lighting, that has one listed online for $2,550 and we can probably get it down a little bit.
If this seems like a good board I can give them a call and see about getting us a demo of it.
Les
Well-Known Member
It's really hard to research and get quotes online anyhow. You just gotta pick up the phone and call them. Many dealers will not / cannot post prices online [except maybe an MSRP, which is still not a good indicator of the actual 'street price']. Online you will usually just find terminology like Price On Request or Price On Application which means "call us". they will also likely have access to many more consoles than they will have listed on their homepage.
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I mean this in all seriousness; given how unaware you appear to be of the lighting console market, do you think that you're actually the best person to be making this kind of purchasing decision? If you are, I highly recommend instead of throwing darts at different consoles you see on the internet, that you call a few different theatrical suppliers in your area, tell them what your situation is, and ask them to make complete recommendations on the best lighting console for your budget and your venue.
The worst thing anyone can do during a purchasing decision like this is claim to be educated well enough on the matter to make the recommendation when they are actually quite inexperienced and end up making a terrible judgement call that the venue has to live with that for the next decade or two.
Also, it's entirely possible that their are factors to be taken into consideration in your school's space that we are unaware of. So taking any recommendation given on this forum without further research and recommending a specific purchase, could be the best option we could've come up with, but then could still be an awful purchase for your venue for one unforeseen reason or another.
Do not purchase a console on a website, and do not make a purchase without having the sales rep walk through your venue and determine if that's a good fit for the school or not. They do this for a living and can make much better decisions than a student can. It is fantastic if you have a set way that you do things, and know what your school needs, but in a couple years when you've graduated there's no saying that the venue will not need something completely different because they want to use it a totally different way. This is especially likely to happen when there are no full-time staff members to oversee the technical side of the theatre.
Waves of students will come ranging from "very competent" to "shouldn't be trusted with a toaster." Some years, students may not even be interested in lighting and the director needs to know how to just quickly turn on some lights, or have an idiot-proof setup so that he can sit anyone in front of that console and put a show on.
I caution you to start by admitting there are people out there who are better equipped to come up with a plan to address the needs of the performance space than you are. They are great people to get to know, and usually once you find someone you like, they'll take care of you. Before you get all caught up in an Element, an Ion, a Bijrou, or [shudder] an Express, call up a couple sales reps, talk to them on the phone or in person, and really get down to the roots of your situation. Email is fine when you already know the rep, but when you don't, it usually will result in being written off as just another pain-in-the-butt student trying to do the right thing for their school by shopping without their permission and making recommendations on that cool lighting rig they saw at that concert this one time...
Those guys see a lot of that. Avoid being that person by having a real, drawn out conversation about what your school needs and what role you have in making that happen. Also, be truthful. If you are student, let them know that. Then when they feel they hit a point where they should be talking to administratives, they'll enter Sales Person mode and talk to administratives. They'll do what they do best to solve the problems for the school.
The worst thing anyone can do during a purchasing decision like this is claim to be educated well enough on the matter to make the recommendation when they are actually quite inexperienced and end up making a terrible judgement call that the venue has to live with that for the next decade or two.
Also, it's entirely possible that their are factors to be taken into consideration in your school's space that we are unaware of. So taking any recommendation given on this forum without further research and recommending a specific purchase, could be the best option we could've come up with, but then could still be an awful purchase for your venue for one unforeseen reason or another.
Do not purchase a console on a website, and do not make a purchase without having the sales rep walk through your venue and determine if that's a good fit for the school or not. They do this for a living and can make much better decisions than a student can. It is fantastic if you have a set way that you do things, and know what your school needs, but in a couple years when you've graduated there's no saying that the venue will not need something completely different because they want to use it a totally different way. This is especially likely to happen when there are no full-time staff members to oversee the technical side of the theatre.
Waves of students will come ranging from "very competent" to "shouldn't be trusted with a toaster." Some years, students may not even be interested in lighting and the director needs to know how to just quickly turn on some lights, or have an idiot-proof setup so that he can sit anyone in front of that console and put a show on.
I caution you to start by admitting there are people out there who are better equipped to come up with a plan to address the needs of the performance space than you are. They are great people to get to know, and usually once you find someone you like, they'll take care of you. Before you get all caught up in an Element, an Ion, a Bijrou, or [shudder] an Express, call up a couple sales reps, talk to them on the phone or in person, and really get down to the roots of your situation. Email is fine when you already know the rep, but when you don't, it usually will result in being written off as just another pain-in-the-butt student trying to do the right thing for their school by shopping without their permission and making recommendations on that cool lighting rig they saw at that concert this one time...
Those guys see a lot of that. Avoid being that person by having a real, drawn out conversation about what your school needs and what role you have in making that happen. Also, be truthful. If you are student, let them know that. Then when they feel they hit a point where they should be talking to administratives, they'll enter Sales Person mode and talk to administratives. They'll do what they do best to solve the problems for the school.
CSCTech
Active Member
MNicolai,
I am completely aware of our regulations and I am the best person at the place who knows about it. But that is why I am asking you guys. If you read the whole thread you know that I have been looking on the internet FOR local dealers and the boards their site says they have in stock. I am not just throwing darts, when I mentioned the MC I was completely aware that it is old and that Leviton is not the best company to go with. I also was not aware that the Express was discontinued until I came here. As I said the two boards we would like to find for a good price is a, ETC Element 60 250 Channel, or a Strang Palette II.
I have no power on the final decision but I need to be the one to bring it up and I need an exact board, price, and dealer to present to the board. There is no theatre department, so if nothing is brought up nothing will happen.
Thanks for udnerstanding.
I will look around more for dealers around here. And as I said I know personally a proffesional I will be contacting for advice on dealers.
As for a Leapfrog, it looks nice, but I don't think it is really what we're looking for.
Are there any other consoles like the Bijou, not to much known? Or companys with other boards then that have been mentioned?
I am completely aware of our regulations and I am the best person at the place who knows about it. But that is why I am asking you guys. If you read the whole thread you know that I have been looking on the internet FOR local dealers and the boards their site says they have in stock. I am not just throwing darts, when I mentioned the MC I was completely aware that it is old and that Leviton is not the best company to go with. I also was not aware that the Express was discontinued until I came here. As I said the two boards we would like to find for a good price is a, ETC Element 60 250 Channel, or a Strang Palette II.
I have no power on the final decision but I need to be the one to bring it up and I need an exact board, price, and dealer to present to the board. There is no theatre department, so if nothing is brought up nothing will happen.
Thanks for udnerstanding.
I will look around more for dealers around here. And as I said I know personally a proffesional I will be contacting for advice on dealers.
As for a Leapfrog, it looks nice, but I don't think it is really what we're looking for.
Are there any other consoles like the Bijou, not to much known? Or companys with other boards then that have been mentioned?
It is one thing to bring up the fact that there is a need for an upgrade, but if you are at a public school, there is absolutely no reason that you need to have an exact board with an exact price from a specific dealer. Why? Because the job will have to be bid out. This means that you (or whoever the school puts in charge of the project which may not be you even though you are bringing it up) will have to write up a specification sheet and that will have to be sent off to a bunch of different vendors and each vendor will send back a quote for a console meeting the specification. With careful spec writing you can limit this to consoles that you are actually interested in, but usually you can't just say "We want an XXX console" in the specs.
You also have to realize that ultimately a purchase like this is not something that will happen quickly or even in the timeframe that you might want. If you are dealing with a public school then your proposal may have to go not only to the Principal of the school but also the the Superintendent and possibly to the school board for approval. Making capital purchases is usually a slow and tedious process in any school environment.
You need to consider that you are making a proposal about a piece of equipment that the school probably really doesn't care about as long as the lights turn on in the auditorium when they are needed. Convincing them that you need XYZ features may be like trying to teach your grandparents how to use a computer. Just be prepared to get put in an indefinite holding pattern.
This however is not to say that you shouldn't go ahead with the project. You should go ahead with the project, just realize that it isn't black and white and it won't be easy or fun. Also be prepared to not see the fruits of your efforts while you are still a student.
There are many consoles on the market that may meet your needs. As we have been saying, the best thing to do is to start calling your local vendors and see what they are dealers for. As we have said, get them to come in and talk to you, or you can go to their shops and talk to them. Get them to bring in demos for you. Both ETC and Strand would be happy to bring you consoles to demo, if your dealers won't do it, just call them directly. As a student you may have to work harder to be taken seriously, but you can make it happen.
Don't be distressed by anything that I or others have said, we want to see you succeed, but we want you so see the realities of the situation.
CSCTech
Active Member
I know, I understand, I have worked on other projects too.
The reason why I am trying to get an exact product and rough price is because I am trying to not go through the school, but another department, so it can be ultimately a piece of equipment of the other departments.
Thing is, we do not just want a new board. We need, a new board.
It is only a mater of time before our current one just goes kaput, If it does go, then that means no more shows, concerts, rentals etc. And I am sure the school will not be happy about that.
The reason why I am trying to get an exact product and rough price is because I am trying to not go through the school, but another department, so it can be ultimately a piece of equipment of the other departments.
Thing is, we do not just want a new board. We need, a new board.
It is only a mater of time before our current one just goes kaput, If it does go, then that means no more shows, concerts, rentals etc. And I am sure the school will not be happy about that.
While I am a professional, I know how you feel and I am in a similar boat. I need new consoles because failure is inevitable. Unfortunately, sometimes it actually takes catastrophic failure to actually get things going. However this is the time when having a plan in place is a really good thing so that you don't get stuck with an impulse buy at that point in time.
I'M beginning to think that there is something in the water in your part of Mass that induces folks to ask questions but not really want to hear the answers.;-)
Buying for a public institution is not like buying for your self.
If you buy a product for your self, then YOU use it and YOU take care of it and YOU fix it etc, A public institution simply does not work that way
The wrong product at the right price is still the wrong product
For a school you DO NOT want to buy a console used. You need to be able to have a local dealer who is going to support you. You appear to be be a student, and this appears to be a high school, so you are not likely to be there for a lot of years and the school is going to need support, and repairs
In my experience it is exactly opposite of what you are saying, in fact the best time to get this corrected is going to be when the current Status Fails, otherwise you are going to continually run into the "its is still working so why replace it and as with most things electronic, the longer you wait the more function you get for the same amount of money
If the Status were to fail you could rent a replacement, buy a new one etc, until it fails, certainly based on all the posts re a total lack of maintenance and planning and support at your school, the likely hood is that nothing is going to happen
Sharyn
Buying for a public institution is not like buying for your self.
If you buy a product for your self, then YOU use it and YOU take care of it and YOU fix it etc, A public institution simply does not work that way
The wrong product at the right price is still the wrong product
For a school you DO NOT want to buy a console used. You need to be able to have a local dealer who is going to support you. You appear to be be a student, and this appears to be a high school, so you are not likely to be there for a lot of years and the school is going to need support, and repairs
In my experience it is exactly opposite of what you are saying, in fact the best time to get this corrected is going to be when the current Status Fails, otherwise you are going to continually run into the "its is still working so why replace it and as with most things electronic, the longer you wait the more function you get for the same amount of money
If the Status were to fail you could rent a replacement, buy a new one etc, until it fails, certainly based on all the posts re a total lack of maintenance and planning and support at your school, the likely hood is that nothing is going to happen
Sharyn
Much has been said, in this and other threads, about the issues that may be encountered when making larger purchase for public high schools.
In my experience (admittedly based on a sample of one... but a large HS in a large school district [Montgomery county, MD]) for "smaller" purchases (under $10,000) schools have a lot of leeway in how purchases are handled. Funding can come from multiple sources, multiple departments, fund raising, etc. A lot can be done without going through a full bid process, and much can be done by a straight purchase requisition, initiated by the school, that specifies the exact equipment and vendor. If we had to put every microphone purchase out to bid, we'd never get any. I do understand that some schools are very picky about even the smallest capital purchase, but that does not apply to all schools/school systems.
I think it's very good that CSCTech is working to identify a specific board and vendor to recommend for replacing their Status. Contacting local distributors, getting demos, and evaluating needs is certainly the way to go, and is what I'd expect anyone to do prior to recommending a multi-thousand dollar purchase. If I was "approving" such a purchase, I'd want some indication that various options were explored. But, we shouldn't be telling CSCTech that all the work may be pointless.
I will have to agree with one thing... there does seem to be something in the water in Mass
.
-Fred
In my experience (admittedly based on a sample of one... but a large HS in a large school district [Montgomery county, MD]) for "smaller" purchases (under $10,000) schools have a lot of leeway in how purchases are handled. Funding can come from multiple sources, multiple departments, fund raising, etc. A lot can be done without going through a full bid process, and much can be done by a straight purchase requisition, initiated by the school, that specifies the exact equipment and vendor. If we had to put every microphone purchase out to bid, we'd never get any. I do understand that some schools are very picky about even the smallest capital purchase, but that does not apply to all schools/school systems.
I think it's very good that CSCTech is working to identify a specific board and vendor to recommend for replacing their Status. Contacting local distributors, getting demos, and evaluating needs is certainly the way to go, and is what I'd expect anyone to do prior to recommending a multi-thousand dollar purchase. If I was "approving" such a purchase, I'd want some indication that various options were explored. But, we shouldn't be telling CSCTech that all the work may be pointless.
I will have to agree with one thing... there does seem to be something in the water in Mass
.-Fred
Don't know if the comment was directed at some of my posts
"But, we shouldn't be telling CSCTech that all the work may be pointless."
I do think that especially for young dedicated high school students there needs to be a clear understanding of how the School District Program for acquisition works. There is a tendancy to look at old less than state of the art gear and instantly decide well need need to replace this it is junk. Problem is in todays world the district might be trying to just buy copy paper for the teachers copy machines. There is sort of a division of nice to have and must have, and without a faculty member with a budget, it is very difficult to get the nice to have. The clue to an overall problem here seems to be that no one "owns" the facility. Putting a Facility in the hands of 3 students while great experience for them is a recipe for disaster from a funding and overall caring standpoint
Schools have budgets that are on the departmental level and it takes a faculty champion to make things happen. Students don't typically even get to attend the meetings where these decisions are made
SO:
As i said, you are asking for trouble if you try to buy used or from some web site that offers the lowest price, as things are going to go wrong and the Student recommend-er is sure to be long gone. In addition districts typically have their own authorized vendor lists. It is one thing as an individual to go on ebay and use your paypal to get a good deal, and that can work but doing this to buy for "someone else" is very very risky
If I read all the threads on the status of the Status, it looks like it has some sort of problem with the battery system, it is certainly not state of the art but probably not a top priority for the district to replace it.. OR else there would be a faculty member running the facility and championing and fighting to get what is needed
So working to determine the best solution makes sense, but trolling the net for what looks like a good used deal is again risky especially since the student appears from a lot of the posts to be very well meaning but very inexperienced and not what I would call a carefull researcher/buyer
In inexpensive short term solution in addition to finding out what is wrong with the battery system MIGHT be from the student perspective is to buy personally a USB PRO enttec unit and down load the software that is free to start learning and using that system.
Anyway this forum is to give advice and guidance so just my thoughts
"But, we shouldn't be telling CSCTech that all the work may be pointless."
I do think that especially for young dedicated high school students there needs to be a clear understanding of how the School District Program for acquisition works. There is a tendancy to look at old less than state of the art gear and instantly decide well need need to replace this it is junk. Problem is in todays world the district might be trying to just buy copy paper for the teachers copy machines. There is sort of a division of nice to have and must have, and without a faculty member with a budget, it is very difficult to get the nice to have. The clue to an overall problem here seems to be that no one "owns" the facility. Putting a Facility in the hands of 3 students while great experience for them is a recipe for disaster from a funding and overall caring standpoint
Schools have budgets that are on the departmental level and it takes a faculty champion to make things happen. Students don't typically even get to attend the meetings where these decisions are made
SO:
As i said, you are asking for trouble if you try to buy used or from some web site that offers the lowest price, as things are going to go wrong and the Student recommend-er is sure to be long gone. In addition districts typically have their own authorized vendor lists. It is one thing as an individual to go on ebay and use your paypal to get a good deal, and that can work but doing this to buy for "someone else" is very very risky
If I read all the threads on the status of the Status, it looks like it has some sort of problem with the battery system, it is certainly not state of the art but probably not a top priority for the district to replace it.. OR else there would be a faculty member running the facility and championing and fighting to get what is needed
So working to determine the best solution makes sense, but trolling the net for what looks like a good used deal is again risky especially since the student appears from a lot of the posts to be very well meaning but very inexperienced and not what I would call a carefull researcher/buyer
In inexpensive short term solution in addition to finding out what is wrong with the battery system MIGHT be from the student perspective is to buy personally a USB PRO enttec unit and down load the software that is free to start learning and using that system.
Anyway this forum is to give advice and guidance so just my thoughts
School purchasing rant
Sharynf,
I was not directing my comments at any posts in particular, but I will take this opportunity to clarify my thoughts.
Let me start by saying that I'm in full agreement with pretty much everything you and others have said:
- Whenever possible, work with a local dealer. Establish a relationship with them
- Demo/trial the boards. Don't just look at spec sheets and manuals
- Have a clear definition of the requirements
- Consider the long term aspects, both for requirements and maintenance/support
- Stay away from used/discontinued/obsolete equipment.
Even if the school had strict purchasing policies, just going through the process of properly identifying appropriate manufacturers, distributors, and equipment can be a valid learning experience in itself, even if it doesn't lead to an immediate purchase. At a minimum the school had a recommendation for what to do when they need to replace/upgrade the equipment, and the student has learned valuable lessons about considering all aspects of a possible purchase that will serve them well in the future (if they make the effort to do it right.)
Now, to digress to my rant.
It's not just this particular thread, but also many others I have seen where a student asks for purchasing advice. Somewhere in the discussion, is the comment that "Schools just can't go buy whatever they want from whoever they want." I admit that even I have made this type of comment. While this may be absolutely true in some cases, I've seen a number of examples where a school actually had great discretion in purchases, even in current economic conditions.
To cite one specific example, we've got two VL-2500 spots (complete with custom gobos of the school mascot.) This purchase was driven by the students, who (with guidance) did the research and then presented the request (for the specific cost, equipment, and vendor) and reasoning directly to the people controlling the money.
What I'm getting at is that although it's certainly valid to remind students that there may be obstacles to the purchase, it shouldn't be emphasized to the point where it distracts from the goal of guiding them in the proper ways to research and consider a purchase.
Thank you for allowing me to rant a bit... now back to our previously scheduled topic.
-Fred
Sharynf,
I was not directing my comments at any posts in particular, but I will take this opportunity to clarify my thoughts.
Let me start by saying that I'm in full agreement with pretty much everything you and others have said:
- Whenever possible, work with a local dealer. Establish a relationship with them
- Demo/trial the boards. Don't just look at spec sheets and manuals
- Have a clear definition of the requirements
- Consider the long term aspects, both for requirements and maintenance/support
- Stay away from used/discontinued/obsolete equipment.
Even if the school had strict purchasing policies, just going through the process of properly identifying appropriate manufacturers, distributors, and equipment can be a valid learning experience in itself, even if it doesn't lead to an immediate purchase. At a minimum the school had a recommendation for what to do when they need to replace/upgrade the equipment, and the student has learned valuable lessons about considering all aspects of a possible purchase that will serve them well in the future (if they make the effort to do it right.)
Now, to digress to my rant.
It's not just this particular thread, but also many others I have seen where a student asks for purchasing advice. Somewhere in the discussion, is the comment that "Schools just can't go buy whatever they want from whoever they want." I admit that even I have made this type of comment. While this may be absolutely true in some cases, I've seen a number of examples where a school actually had great discretion in purchases, even in current economic conditions.
To cite one specific example, we've got two VL-2500 spots (complete with custom gobos of the school mascot.) This purchase was driven by the students, who (with guidance) did the research and then presented the request (for the specific cost, equipment, and vendor) and reasoning directly to the people controlling the money.
What I'm getting at is that although it's certainly valid to remind students that there may be obstacles to the purchase, it shouldn't be emphasized to the point where it distracts from the goal of guiding them in the proper ways to research and consider a purchase.
Thank you for allowing me to rant a bit... now back to our previously scheduled topic.
-Fred
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Re: School purchasing rant
The issue with your rant is that there is a big difference between high schools that have a real theatre department and ones that just put on a show directed by some teacher every year. My high school had a department with a TD and department head, they were the ones who managed our budget, authorized and made purchases. We never had to replace a console, but a capital purchase like that would have had to go higher up because we would never have fit it in our budget.
Even in one school district you might find schools with very different levels of technology in their theatre. There are so many factors that go into it. Right here in SLC I know that there are some schools that have beautiful facilities with newer gear and there are schools with old gear begging for upgrades. The strange thing is that the people with the newer nicer gear usually get more new gear first.
Currently, the theatre I work for is it's own company, but we operate under the University of Utah, so we have to play by their rules. For us, ANY purchase of sing items over $4K MUST be put out for bid. Now, we can specify exactly what we want, but there still has to be a bid process.
I don't want to discourage people from trying to make changes. If no one took the initiative to create a proposal then nothing would happen at all. I applaud students like CSCTech for taking the initiative and we should make sure that we help them out. We just also need to remember and remind them that generally (not always) capital purchases take a lot of work and a long time. If you are a second semester senior in HS or even a second semester junior, you may not actually be in school long enough to see your plans come to fruition. It sucks, but it is often the case.
We want to help, and we want to see students succeed, but diving headlong into a project without knowing the way the system works is often a setup for heartbreak and failure.
The issue with your rant is that there is a big difference between high schools that have a real theatre department and ones that just put on a show directed by some teacher every year. My high school had a department with a TD and department head, they were the ones who managed our budget, authorized and made purchases. We never had to replace a console, but a capital purchase like that would have had to go higher up because we would never have fit it in our budget.
Even in one school district you might find schools with very different levels of technology in their theatre. There are so many factors that go into it. Right here in SLC I know that there are some schools that have beautiful facilities with newer gear and there are schools with old gear begging for upgrades. The strange thing is that the people with the newer nicer gear usually get more new gear first.
Currently, the theatre I work for is it's own company, but we operate under the University of Utah, so we have to play by their rules. For us, ANY purchase of sing items over $4K MUST be put out for bid. Now, we can specify exactly what we want, but there still has to be a bid process.
I don't want to discourage people from trying to make changes. If no one took the initiative to create a proposal then nothing would happen at all. I applaud students like CSCTech for taking the initiative and we should make sure that we help them out. We just also need to remember and remind them that generally (not always) capital purchases take a lot of work and a long time. If you are a second semester senior in HS or even a second semester junior, you may not actually be in school long enough to see your plans come to fruition. It sucks, but it is often the case.
We want to help, and we want to see students succeed, but diving headlong into a project without knowing the way the system works is often a setup for heartbreak and failure.
CSCTech
Active Member
I have said in my posts in this thread that of course we will be going with a local dealer. What I was talking about before was I was actually looking for dealers around here, and we will most likely be going with Immidia1. We get all of our audio and gel needs through them and I did not realize that they could order anything from a lot of company's and they just don't stock most of it.
And when I was looking for boards I was just looking for things I would like to look for when looking at our dealers. When I go to pick up the gels in a few days I am going to ask them about consoles and what brands they carry. Granted we do not get much supply's int he first place, but we are pretty loyal to them, anything we have gotten comes through them. I will get a price and board from Immidia and maybe a few other dealers and keep them to myself for a while and once our situation gets worse I will bring it up, they will say no. Then when the board totally fails I will bring it up again and state the consiqences and then thigns will get done. And I think I mentioend a few times before, our music department head really wants to help us out because he uses the auditorium a lot of course.
And when I was looking for boards I was just looking for things I would like to look for when looking at our dealers. When I go to pick up the gels in a few days I am going to ask them about consoles and what brands they carry. Granted we do not get much supply's int he first place, but we are pretty loyal to them, anything we have gotten comes through them. I will get a price and board from Immidia and maybe a few other dealers and keep them to myself for a while and once our situation gets worse I will bring it up, they will say no. Then when the board totally fails I will bring it up again and state the consiqences and then thigns will get done. And I think I mentioend a few times before, our music department head really wants to help us out because he uses the auditorium a lot of course.
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