How does this sound?

Is there a reason that 4 or six of the seats in the center of the back two rows cannot be removed to accomodate a mix position? This would be pretty common in a theatre with continental seating like yours. It would really be a far superior mix position than being stuck in a booth. Since you are an educational facility the loss of the few seats in those rows should not be as much of an issue as it would be in a commercial setting. The cost would be mainly labor and some materials from the hardware store to level the area out. The seats could also be kept as spare parts, or to reinstall should it not work out.

~Dave


That may actually be doable, at least on a temporary basis. I'll see if we can try it for the choir concert or something. (it's not usually mic'ed, our orchestra shell combined with the acoustics of the space make mic'ing unnecessary)
 
@museav - Again, I'm not designing the system. I'm just recommending a console based on what I have seen that we need. I've seen that we need more channels, and a better way to get signal from the stage to the console. I've seen that sometimes we might need to be able to move the console to another location in the space. I've seen that it would be handy to have at least one compressor. (yes we could go outboard) I've seen that we need scene recall. I've seen that we need a better way to get signal back to the stage (for effects speakers/monitors. I've spent at least 6 hours this year trying to get them to work.) We need a console that's easy to teach to untrained persons. We need to be able to stop certain people *cough rentals cough* from changing settings. (if it were up to me, I would require that rentals have a house tech present any time they are using our system, and not just because it would probably be me. Hopefully that policy will be implemented with the new system.)

And yes, almost any digital console will fullfil these needs.



The original system was built 20 years ago, and is probably the most complicated system I've seen. It took me a couple of hours of looking at it and tweaking things to figure out how it was supposed to work. I've heard from multiple people that the company botched the install, and it never worked correctly. They used cheap components, poor quality speakers, etc. The only part of the original system that we use is the snake (it's on its last leg), and the 70v speaker system going into the dressing rooms. Actually, the clearcom system might be original, but the setup has been changed from how it originally was. I know it's broken because we don't use it anymore, and the TD has had to bypass most of it because of bad components.
 
@museav - Again, I'm not designing the system. I'm just recommending a console based on what I have seen that we need. I've seen that we need more channels, and a better way to get signal from the stage to the console. I've seen that sometimes we might need to be able to move the console to another location in the space. I've seen that it would be handy to have at least one compressor. (yes we could go outboard) I've seen that we need scene recall. I've seen that we need a better way to get signal back to the stage (for effects speakers/monitors. I've spent at least 6 hours this year trying to get them to work.) We need a console that's easy to teach to untrained persons. We need to be able to stop certain people *cough rentals cough* from changing settings. (if it were up to me, I would require that rentals have a house tech present any time they are using our system, and not just because it would probably be me. Hopefully that policy will be implemented with the new system.)

And yes, almost any digital console will fullfil these needs.
Then I think you answered your own question, apparently almost any digital console is acceptable.

Making a specific product recommendation actually seems to conflict with your saying that you are not the system designer as product selection directly affects the system design. A console is a component of the overall system. It has to support the rest of the system and the physical conditions and functional requirements of the project. I often go through multiple products, including consoles, as a system design develops. I find myself needing a couple more inputs or realize that you can't fit a connecting cable in the existing conduit or find that we don't have sufficient space or there is some minor functional requirement that can't be supported or that it is simply too expensive and then I'm on to trying to find another product that can support all the requirements of that specific application.

If you start by defining specific equipment models to the system designer then the process is different. You have to design around those products and the process becomes not selecting products to support the design requirements by rather developing a design that supports the products. If compromises or changes are required they have to be in the design and the resulting system functionality, performance, cost, etc. rather than in the equipment.

So it is great to provide the type of information you did in your response above and there is nothing wrong to offer some product models as a general example of what you are thinking. But you probably do not need to come up with specific products or solutions, that is part of the job of the system designer, especially if you are not that familiar with the product options available or able to address issues such as budget.

I'll be very blunt. My last project where the user input was primarily an equipment list with no clear basis resulted in my telling them that either they could design the system or I could, but I could not take responsibility for the outcome of a system whose basis was an equipment list and little else. That project has also languished in limbo for a couple of years now and with the owner and users focusing on the phsyical structure and the things in it rather than what they want the facility to be and do functionally, I am not surprised.
 
I got a look at the winning bid today. We basically got what I wanted in my original post: an LS9-32 and SB168-ES stage boxes. Also Renkus-Heinz speakers and subs (I don't remember the exact model). I want to say the amps were QSC, but I can't remember.

I would have preferred an M7CL-48ES, but the LS9 is all we really needed. The packet I read didn't specify how many stage boxes, speakers, etc we were getting. We are also getting at least 5 ethernet (Ethersound) drops put in around the space, so we will be able to put the console almost anywhere we want. (No more dragging that ancient snake out the booth window. We can also be more than 10 feet from said window now!)

One thing that's got me worried is the amps they spec'ed aren't Ethersound compatible. That would mean that, while the snake was digital, the runs to the amps would have to be analog. Of course now that I think about it, that wasn't a complete list of what we're getting. There's going to have to be a processor somewhere in the mix (which wasn't in the packet I read) so that will probably connect to the Ethersound network.

Installation is supposed to start next week, so I'm very excited!
 

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