If you were going to choose a console today?
- Thread starterkendal69
- Start date
You might also check out the Stand Palette/Light Palette series... comparable to the ETC Ion/Eos.
One consideration might be how many "pieces" there are to a board. Since you will be setting up and moving constantly, having a board as one integrated unit may be an advantage. Maybe something that can support multiple (external) monitors for complex shows, but which you can also use with one (or none) for the simple stuff.
-Fred
One consideration might be how many "pieces" there are to a board. Since you will be setting up and moving constantly, having a board as one integrated unit may be an advantage. Maybe something that can support multiple (external) monitors for complex shows, but which you can also use with one (or none) for the simple stuff.
-Fred
Congo Jr. w/o Master Playback Wing
I wouldn't mind having a second one around. I usually use the wing for programming, but not as much for shows (but sometimes). It would make the most sense to round off our lighting controls by having a second Jr. and having a playback wing that floats between both consoles depending on how they're being used.
It's a great console that I've fallen in love with. the downside is that Congo seems to be a console that requires a lot of personality in programming. Each person will have their own style for using docks, setting up channel layouts, organizing masters and using direct selects. There are dozens of ways in Congo to achieve the same (or similar) results, which can make it difficult for one programmer to take over where another has left off. I find myself negotiating with touring LD's coming into our roadhouse how to setup the console prior to their arrival.
It's also not intuitive at first glance and Congo programmers are few and far between here in the states. Few people walking into the theatre for a one-off are going to be able to figure it out unless I program their entire show onto sliders or the Go button. It's not unusual for me to be on call during rehearsals or shows when someone else is operating should they encounter problems. Once you put glue on the seat and sit down, learning the syntax is pretty easy and comes pretty naturally, but not so naturally that I'd want to teach an LD in the morning and have them operate the entire show later that night.
When we got ours, we had to seek advice from either Mecca or a college a few hours from here across the state line that had a handful of Congo programmers. About a year after we got ours, another roadhouse 20mi down the highway picked one up too, though.
It's especially nice having a console with built-in training projects and tutorials. It really helps our students learn how to program ML's without having to have them in the space. They can also practice programming from their home PC's.
IMO, there's two downsides to Congo, though. I've spent a lot of time working on Congo -- more than Express lately, and find it difficult to switch back into @Mode thinking instead of RPN. I can't touch an Express without accidentally trying to type something in using RPN. The easiest lighting console to use then becomes really difficult. Also, our student programmers don't have much to look forward to after they graduate. Their valuable assets to theatres with Congo, but that's such a small slice of the pie when it comes to lighting consoles currently in use in the US.
Regardless of all of that, I still love that Congo gives everyone something to argue about. It seems like people will either swear by Congo or pay to never see one again.
If you're not willing to learn, don't ever get a Congo. On the other hand, every single function in Congo is no more than a couple keystrokes away if you know what you're doing.
I wouldn't mind having a second one around. I usually use the wing for programming, but not as much for shows (but sometimes). It would make the most sense to round off our lighting controls by having a second Jr. and having a playback wing that floats between both consoles depending on how they're being used.
It's a great console that I've fallen in love with. the downside is that Congo seems to be a console that requires a lot of personality in programming. Each person will have their own style for using docks, setting up channel layouts, organizing masters and using direct selects. There are dozens of ways in Congo to achieve the same (or similar) results, which can make it difficult for one programmer to take over where another has left off. I find myself negotiating with touring LD's coming into our roadhouse how to setup the console prior to their arrival.
It's also not intuitive at first glance and Congo programmers are few and far between here in the states. Few people walking into the theatre for a one-off are going to be able to figure it out unless I program their entire show onto sliders or the Go button. It's not unusual for me to be on call during rehearsals or shows when someone else is operating should they encounter problems. Once you put glue on the seat and sit down, learning the syntax is pretty easy and comes pretty naturally, but not so naturally that I'd want to teach an LD in the morning and have them operate the entire show later that night.
When we got ours, we had to seek advice from either Mecca or a college a few hours from here across the state line that had a handful of Congo programmers. About a year after we got ours, another roadhouse 20mi down the highway picked one up too, though.
It's especially nice having a console with built-in training projects and tutorials. It really helps our students learn how to program ML's without having to have them in the space. They can also practice programming from their home PC's.
IMO, there's two downsides to Congo, though. I've spent a lot of time working on Congo -- more than Express lately, and find it difficult to switch back into @Mode thinking instead of RPN. I can't touch an Express without accidentally trying to type something in using RPN. The easiest lighting console to use then becomes really difficult. Also, our student programmers don't have much to look forward to after they graduate. Their valuable assets to theatres with Congo, but that's such a small slice of the pie when it comes to lighting consoles currently in use in the US.
Regardless of all of that, I still love that Congo gives everyone something to argue about. It seems like people will either swear by Congo or pay to never see one again.
If you're not willing to learn, don't ever get a Congo. On the other hand, every single function in Congo is no more than a couple keystrokes away if you know what you're doing.
bsulliv
Member
Last year I upgraded our space from a Strand 300 to an ETC Ion with a fader wing. We are a smaller space, 175 seats, 120 Dimmers, 4 VL1000s, and a mix of ETC S4 units. I have nothing bad to say, the board has been great, and the students that I work with have picked up the operation very quickly. You may not use all of the functions of the board but, the flexibility and room for expanded use were of the greatest assets. The compact portability of the board also makes tech from the house very easy, the board carries a small foot print, and the offline editor is top notch making it very easy to train and build shows offline before getting into the theatre.
DanAyers
Active Member
Seeing that it's mid-may you might consider renting from a Martin dealer. You can probably negotiate that a percentage of rental fees will apply to the new board since a demo is not yet available.
Then you could properly evaluate the new console.
That said, I rarely choose to be one of the first buyers, I'll wait until 2-3 software updates have come out so I'm not finding all the little bugs.
Then you could properly evaluate the new console.
That said, I rarely choose to be one of the first buyers, I'll wait until 2-3 software updates have come out so I'm not finding all the little bugs.
The M1 is now in production, the first batch will get in the US early June just in time for InfoComm in Las Vegas.
About the software, The M1 is based on over 8 years of software development. Of course no one can claim there's no bug in their console. But we know there's a dozen M1 in action around the globe and we are proud to say that it's been running smoothly all along. The software is really stable and mature. Some of them still have the same software since PL&S in Frankfurt (March 2010) and runs like a charm. At this point we are adding a load of new features for the next software release.
Regarding the price, I must remind people that MSRP price means not much. check with a few reseller first as margins are different from a manufacturer to another.
I'm sure one can find an M1 under 15K
Actually the M1 did its first US concert last weekend, Edward Motts was the board operator.
Photos are here:
Martin M-One | Facebook
I'm surprised nobody mentioned Avolites. They're great boards and I like them much better than the hogs. But, that theater thing, I wasn't all that pleased with. So I solve this by not doing much theater.
The last decent sized gig I did, we had an Element and my Avolites and we switched several of the universes when the show ended and the party began.
However, Chamsys is really the best board available, and will remain so for many years to come. There really is no competitor. And no company can touch their response time.
Anecdote: I emailed Chamsys on a late Friday night (PST) for an updated fixture profile. They had it in my email box within hours. And they're in Belgium (I think)!
2nd Anecdote: I called Martin's 24 hour support line when one of their LightJockey systems went down on a Saturday night at the largest club in the city. I got a call back on Wednesday asking what the problem was. I explained the issue and they said they'd call me back. That was 3 years ago. I'm still waiting for the call back. Obviously, I ripped out the LJ system, literally through it in the dumpster, and replaced it w/ a non-Martin controller.
The last decent sized gig I did, we had an Element and my Avolites and we switched several of the universes when the show ended and the party began.
However, Chamsys is really the best board available, and will remain so for many years to come. There really is no competitor. And no company can touch their response time.
Anecdote: I emailed Chamsys on a late Friday night (PST) for an updated fixture profile. They had it in my email box within hours. And they're in Belgium (I think)!
2nd Anecdote: I called Martin's 24 hour support line when one of their LightJockey systems went down on a Saturday night at the largest club in the city. I got a call back on Wednesday asking what the problem was. I explained the issue and they said they'd call me back. That was 3 years ago. I'm still waiting for the call back. Obviously, I ripped out the LJ system, literally through it in the dumpster, and replaced it w/ a non-Martin controller.
Hi!
My name is Matthias and I am responsible for the M1 development at Martin. I am located in LA and I have an M1 sitting on my desk in Burbank. There are so far only two prototypes in the US so its a good opportunity to see a brand-new desk and talk to the guy who made it
. I am not a sales person so there is no pressure or used car sales tactics from me.OIn the support end I would say M1 is unbeatable in Socal as the Product Manager (me!) lives there
We can take the M1 apart, turn it upside down and plug in our demo room rig into it so you can play with real fixtures.
I think it would be great if we could meet up and I give you an overview of the desk in person. Since I came up with most of the way it looks and works I think I can answer all your questions. I would love to hear your feedback, even if you decide to use buy a different console in the end, then I'd like to know why so we can learn from it.
Honest and unbiased feedback is incredibly important for me as it will help make our products better in the future and I find everybodies approach to lighting programming very interesting and educational for me to improve our controllers.
This is my first post on CB, I have been a frequent reader for a long time.
If I can be of any help with anything regarding to Martin fixtures and controllers feel free to contact me directly by emailing me via the profile link.
I hope I can contribute positively, and no worries, I will not spam every console post with "buy Martin stuff" comments. If I can offer help as in this case I think its a fair thing though and I hope it does no annoy anybody.
Anyway feel free to contact me and maybe we can exchange phone numbers for a quick chat.
Good luck on your console hunt, there are many fine products out there and I sincerely hope you will give the M1 desk a fair chance.
I'm sorry if you or who ever told you this annecdote on LJ support.
For most of it I do reply to email regarding LJ support questions.
Considering there are several 10 of thousands LJ user in the world meaning more then probably all other controllers combined together. We do get a lot of questions.
I can tell you that 90% of these are responded within 30 minutes upon receiving in the normal work hours. and usually it is no longer then 12 hours.
All this to say your annedote are point less here, one case in each camp does not make it the real fact.
If you spend some time on the Martin Controller forum you will see the % of satisfaction is very high. We do take care of our customers. and it is one reason Martin users stick with Martin.
I hope we can make it back to this person who did not receive proper attention "3 years ago" Too bad the hardware was trashed, as iti s still worth every penny.
For most of it I do reply to email regarding LJ support questions.
Considering there are several 10 of thousands LJ user in the world meaning more then probably all other controllers combined together. We do get a lot of questions.
I can tell you that 90% of these are responded within 30 minutes upon receiving in the normal work hours. and usually it is no longer then 12 hours.
All this to say your annedote are point less here, one case in each camp does not make it the real fact.
If you spend some time on the Martin Controller forum you will see the % of satisfaction is very high. We do take care of our customers. and it is one reason Martin users stick with Martin.
I hope we can make it back to this person who did not receive proper attention "3 years ago" Too bad the hardware was trashed, as iti s still worth every penny.
On my search to talk to a "dealer" about the M-1 here is my results.
Note after the first few phone calla to dealers my quest actually turned into a comedy sketch. I actually started an xcel spread sheet as I walked down the dealer list in my area.
Here's my advise to Martin. Contact all your dealers and inform them you have a new product coming out. Redo your dealer list to be sure that dealers actually still exist and numbers are good.
How is it that I know more about the M1 than the 11 dealers I called?
I have never had such a hard time spending many thousands of dollars in my life.
Below is the result of calling 11 dealers in about an hour on the phone and a whole lot of long distant charges and I got absolutely NO WHERE, NADA , ZILCH. Yes I did take names and times etc. but left them off here, just the response to the question about info on the M1 is listed.
Don't know anything about it
No we don't have and won't have one
Number disconnected
Speak with ------ will be in in three days
Number Disconnected
------ said "We don't stock anything,
Don't know anything about it"
Number disconnected
-----------Asked if (I the customer) had a part number Never did find info on the M1
See --------- on Monday same company as above
No Answer Number not working
Maybe when I have more time and some left over minutes I'll continue my quest.
Note after the first few phone calla to dealers my quest actually turned into a comedy sketch. I actually started an xcel spread sheet as I walked down the dealer list in my area.
Here's my advise to Martin. Contact all your dealers and inform them you have a new product coming out. Redo your dealer list to be sure that dealers actually still exist and numbers are good.
How is it that I know more about the M1 than the 11 dealers I called?
I have never had such a hard time spending many thousands of dollars in my life.
Below is the result of calling 11 dealers in about an hour on the phone and a whole lot of long distant charges and I got absolutely NO WHERE, NADA , ZILCH. Yes I did take names and times etc. but left them off here, just the response to the question about info on the M1 is listed.
Don't know anything about it
No we don't have and won't have one
Number disconnected
Speak with ------ will be in in three days
Number Disconnected
------ said "We don't stock anything,
Don't know anything about it"
Number disconnected
-----------Asked if (I the customer) had a part number Never did find info on the M1
See --------- on Monday same company as above
No Answer Number not working
Maybe when I have more time and some left over minutes I'll continue my quest.
Well back in the days I worked for a production house, it was the same, generally I knew more about the products then the resellers and many time evne more then the country importer. It's the nature of the business I guess, they focus on day to day things adn have no time for other tasks.
So just be proud of the fact you know more than them, that's how I got my job at Martin back then ;-)
Paul Pelletier, I'm going to hang in there and try and get a demo.
The main question that I would like answered is the M1 easy and intuitive to use. With many employees I don't have the privilege to assign one person exclusively to the board.
I don't expect a person to walk up and start using it, but I don't have time to re-train a programming language to each new person.
Any advice Paul?
The main question that I would like answered is the M1 easy and intuitive to use. With many employees I don't have the privilege to assign one person exclusively to the board.
I don't expect a person to walk up and start using it, but I don't have time to re-train a programming language to each new person.
Any advice Paul?
Lotos
Active Member
I'm a little late to the party...
But I'll throw my voice in for the Strand Palette series... The big desks can be quite pricey, but the smaller desks (The 'Classic Palette II' for example.) can be had for quite a reasonable price... And they have all the same software features... Just fewer outputs, and a slightly less 'intuitive' control surface for moving lights.
Classic Palette II | Strand Lighting - A Philips Group Brand
You're able to select between several 'Strand Flavours' of 'Context'... Which should be familiar to almost any operator stepping into the space.
It can be used in a "Tracking" or "Live" mode as well, giving added versatility depending on operator preference.
The guys at Strand are also really helpful whenever you're having issues.
(Not saying the guys at Martin aren't... Paul's helped me with several Maxedia problems over the years... I think we spent over an hour on the phone after a software upgrade diagnosing the fact that I'm an idiot.)
Just another thought to toss into your pile.
Your local PRG and/or Strand Distributor should be able to hook you up with a demo model.
But I'll throw my voice in for the Strand Palette series... The big desks can be quite pricey, but the smaller desks (The 'Classic Palette II' for example.) can be had for quite a reasonable price... And they have all the same software features... Just fewer outputs, and a slightly less 'intuitive' control surface for moving lights.
Classic Palette II | Strand Lighting - A Philips Group Brand
You're able to select between several 'Strand Flavours' of 'Context'... Which should be familiar to almost any operator stepping into the space.
It can be used in a "Tracking" or "Live" mode as well, giving added versatility depending on operator preference.
The guys at Strand are also really helpful whenever you're having issues.
(Not saying the guys at Martin aren't... Paul's helped me with several Maxedia problems over the years... I think we spent over an hour on the phone after a software upgrade diagnosing the fact that I'm an idiot.)
Just another thought to toss into your pile.
Your local PRG and/or Strand Distributor should be able to hook you up with a demo model.
It can happen once a while that something goes wrong with the support line,
I hope you can forgive us ;-0) .Now go find that LJ in the trash bin, it might still be there ...LOL
But from the many trainings I did, yes I can say the software is intuitive with a very logical command line that you guess the commands on your own. No need to memorize awkward series of keystroke.
The interface is very graphical, not only rows and columns of numbers.
More important is the philosophy that remains what most of today’s moving light desk are using, i.e.: Tracking Cuelists system with a graphical interface and command line.
As I mentioned before, it takes less than 30 minutes to understand this desk for any semi experience programmer.
