If you were going to choose a console today?

[kendal69]

If you were to buy a console today or in a few months what would you buy for between 5K and 12K to do conventional, DMX, and some moving lights.

Seems like some new stuff is coming out like the Martin M1, anyone played with that yet? Also a lot o talk about the ION and others that I may not be aware of. Also seems people are moving away from HOGs

Currently I'm leaning toward the M1, just because it will be the latest greatest and the newest stuff seems to have a longer shelf life. I have buying a console that is about to be retired.

I would use it for Convention work so I never know what will be thrown at me and a lot of people are moving as fast as they cab towards everything LED.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[derekleffew]

Genre and type of venue?

 

[sdauditorium]

Without knowing what types of shows you'd be using it for and the level(s) of expertise of your techs, it's tough. We upgraded to a ETC Express 24/48 about 5 years ago from an old Strand MX. Since, we've added a few moving light fixtures, a couple Right Arms and 24 color scrollers. That eats up a TON of the board's 96 channels and makes it not fun to control them sometimes.

I've been looking at, and subsequently would suggest, an Ion. Great reviews and relative intuitive interface. Further more, not only will it likely serve your current needs but also needs well into the future.

That will be our next board in a couple years - the Ion with a few fader wings, touch screens and RFU.

 

[techno89]

I would do something in the EOS family to, maybe and Element if you don't need everything the Ion has

 

[Jeroen]

The GrandMA en GrandMA2 series are impressive.
Perhaps a GrandMA Ultra-light or GrandMA2 Ultra-light fits your budget. Otherwise a GrandMA Pico or Micro.
The GrandMA series has the advantage that they all 'speak the same language'. If you can program on an ultra light, you can also work with a full size MA if you have the opportunity. So for your own personal development it's an excellent platform. Also GrandMA is known all over the world, so guests will appreciate the console.
The GrandMA family is one of the most powerful range of consoles available today.


But you should also look to your venue and type of use. What's desired? busking? ...

Other excellent consoles: ETC ION, ETC/AVAB Congo Junior, CompuLite Vector Violet, ADB Mentor (very good for conventionals but not so happy on movers), Chanmsys MagicQ 200 (more a rock 'n roll console). From those the ETC Congo Jr, would be my choice for theatre purposes.
More conventionals? -> ETC Element?

 

[renegadeblack]

It really depends on how many MLs you're going to have. If it's going to be mostly conventionals and scrollers with maybe one or two MLs, then I'd say that the Element is the best way to go. I just got one last week at school (upgrade from an Innovator) and it's great so far.

 

[DanAyers]

A good console is like a good pair of shoes. One may be the most comfortable for one person and the worst fit for another.

For that budget, get a demo.
Here is a good list to consider, its definitely not the only list...

The Chemsys Magic-Q is nice because it accommodates several programming styles and allows you to intertwine the styles together, if you like an ETC style or an Avolites or HOG or MA style you can adjust the board to speak this language. It may be above your budget, and it is only available from PRG which could limit competitive pricing opportunities.

The ION is a good fit if you do a lot of work with rep theaters, or you like their fader wings. It has a respectable learning curve of about a day, and on the programming side it seems like a lot of button pushes. They're market share is rapidly growing in the rep theater and LORT theaters will like the fact that they can bring their cue's along with the show.

The Congo JR is a good fit if you have a solid operator and want to be able to minimize keystrokes. Programming language is fairly European and unique to the us so if you have multiple operators it might not be a good fit.

The HOG system is good but declining in the market place. The nice thing about HOG is jut about every good professional, lighting board operator knows how to use it & it will do the job quite nicely. If you do straight theater with lots of cue's you may prefer the ion over the hog.

The Jands Vista System uses a unique timeline approach which can make programming the board a breeze. I openly admit I haven't used it but I've heard complaints about editing the timeline.

The MA System has been taking the touring market by storm. I know a lot of people like it. I have not run a show on it but I can say space invaders is a lot of fun on this console.

The Board operator for Pearl Jam used the Virtuosso by Strand & was quite pleased with that console series, ive never used it but she praised it.

And I did enjoy a demo by Martin on their boards, but I really do not see them very often.


Regardless, check with several of the local rental companies near you and find out what they use. If you ever tour, then stick to the more well known boards like ETC ION, HOG and MA Try to locate 2-3 identical boards in rental stock or another company that you could use if your board ever crashed 10 minutes before the show. I did a show last week, board died 10 minutes before the show, it happens.


Get a demo, make sure you like the interface for yourself.

 

[shiben]

I would personally advise against the Congo Jr. Although I used one for a couple of years (and it was my first memory board), I still find them dificult to use and get to do what I want. I also find patching a bit confusing (especially if you want to have your scroller and your intensity in one channel with 2 parameters). Moving to the Ion was a breeze, and basically was trouble free. I had things working like I wanted, and I cues with scrollers on lights all from the same place within a day, and was happily programing away. +1 for the Ion. However, also +1 for getting a demo of a couple of units. Who cares if I really love the Ion if you hate it. Treat it like a car, its about the same price anyhow. Test drive that guy.

 

[Sparkinium]

We've got a Jands Vista at my college. It's definitely designed to work best for rock-and-roll type work, in contrast to theatrical work. However, Jands is very good at updating the software frequently, and in my experience, their support staff responds to inquiries quickly. It's also worth noting that they're currently developing a new operating system for their boards, code-named Byron, which will supposedly be more aimed at theatre uses.

We've also got an ETC Element here. I've really liked it, and it's great if you're familiar with the Express or similar. I don't know enough about it to say any more than that, though.

 

[metti]

I would just like to point out a couple of things. The OP indicated that they want to spend between $5K and $12K and yet people have filled this thread with suggestions that are way out of that budget, unless he wants a computer with wing (which it seems like he doesn't).

MagicQ MQ100Pro is several thousand too much and the MQ200 is even more.
Jands Vista T2 is waay too much
An Ion could work if he doesn't need fader wings and he has a good relationship with a dealer but if he needs wings it is likely going to be out of budget.
Whoever suggested a GrandMA2 clearly has never seen the pricing on one of those (think 2-3x the OP's budget even for an Ultra Lite)
A Hog 2 of any variety (other than OnPC systems) is way out of their budget
Also, the Virtuoso is made by PRG (formerly by Vari-Lite) not by Strand and there is only one of them, not a series. Also they are super expensive.
The M1 has an MSRP of roughly $16K which means it will be near impossible to get one including a road case for in your budget.

To the OP: In order for people to give better answers we need more info. How many playbacks/subs do you want/need. Do you care about built in vs external monitors? How many universes do you need? Are you willing to buy used? In the meantime I would recommend in no particular order:
Used Hog IPC
Used Avolites Pearl (Various versions fit your budget)
Used Congo Jr
Used Vector Orange
New Element
New Ion if no wings are needed
Laptop and a wing (MagicQ, Hog 3, etc)

 

[Synchronize]

I'm just going to throw my two cents on the Element.

Don't get me wrong, its a great little console. I love it and its great for my current venue. We have a rack of conventionals and the occasional rental of some movers, scrollers, etc. It definatly has the power to control all of that and its pretty easy. BUT not having encoders and a touchscreen with a list of pallets laid out of in front of you is a real pain in the rear.

If you KNOW that your rig will regularly contain movers or the like and you have 12k budgeted for a console, please, do yourself a favor and use it. ETC makes great stuff.
The IONs not bad, but I wouldn't use it for a rig FULL of movers either. If you have a few then its great, but I find that is too much trouble. I don't know what the EOS goes for but I wouldn't mind sitting behind one.

I love High Ends boards. I've programmed on a Wholehog II and own a Jands HOG 1k Echelon. Haven't messed with their newer stuff yet but I'm sure its just as great. Look at the Roadhog and HOG iPC.

I've also done some work on a MA Ultra Lite. Its by far my favorite. If you can afford it I would get MA. I don't know what these go for either, but it's well worth it. It's completely versatile and the easiest to use in my opinion.

EDIT: Almost for got the most important thing. Ask your local dealers for demos. They should be more than happy to bring you in and let you play with a few boards. Demo as many as you are interested in. Theres nothing worse than spending twelve grand and then being let down when you get the equipment.

 

[kendal69]

I guess I wasn't as clear as I thought I was. In the convention industry you never ever have one type of venue or a specific use for a lighting console. One day you may need the console for simple up lighting with some timed fade, one day you may do a fashion show, next time a rock and roll production, then the customer may want a full cirque production or an off off Broadway type play done in a ballroom and lastly it may be used for area lighting and or a trade show. In other words the console will not sit in one place and used ONLY for ( fill in the blank ).

So what I am reading here with the responses is great this is actually what I'm looking for. I like the responses that say this board can be learned in a day, this can and can't be done with this board. YES that's what I needed to hear.

I got two quotes today for the ION at around 9K and the M1 at 10K so they are right there price wise. The GrandMA Ulta light came in at 17K.

Not saying I wouldn't perhaps go to the 17K if it the "gold standard" which is what I am also hearing is GrandMA

I'm just so tired of having consoles get outdated in front of me.

 

[SteveB]

I got two quotes today for the ION at around 9K and the M1 at 10K so they are right there price wise. The GrandMA Ulta light came in at 17K.

Not saying I wouldn't perhaps go to the 17K if it the "gold standard" which is what I am also hearing is GrandMA

I'm just so tired of having consoles get outdated in front of me.

I went to an Ion in October. Only yesterday did I get to run a type event that might have been done on a Hog in years past. Is an Ion a Hog III of today ? - No, but it still can do a great job of busking with a bunch of ML's and LED's, as I found out this weekend.

What I like best is the adaptability. One day it's doing a cued theater event, maybe using cues imported from an Expression and a single 20 fader wing, the next using 80 or 120 faders/subs as channel faders, cue lists and effects for a one-off, then next adding 4 Elation floor ML's to the standard rig for a Reggae show, or 10 Color Blasts on a religious concert. It helps IMMENSELY to have dual touch screen LCD's for these type of things as you can open 6 different Direct Select screens of assorted Palettes and Presets. OS Version 1.9 with Tabs made life so much easier and with ETC doing constant upgraes, it only gets better. Lot of console for the money.

 

[metti]

I stand corrected on M1 pricing. If you can stretch to 17K that changes everything. For a hair under 17K you can get a Chamsys MQ100Pro which I would say without any hesitation is the best light board any made. Don't get me wrong, I love the GrandMA and the MaxXYZ and Hog 3 OS is decent but in my opinion none of them are as powerful (especially with media) or well designed as the MagicQ software. I would definitely encourage you to see about a demo with a Chamsys board. Where are you located specifically?

 

[metti]

Now that I read my post it sounds a bit one minded so here are some additional comments on other boards:

You can't really go wrong with a GrandMA Ultra Light. It is a really good piece of equipment. The only thing to think about is the fact that you are buying a decade+ old piece of technology which you had mentioned wasn't super appealing to you.

The M1 looks pretty cool. I haven't used it but I have used the original MaxXYZ and the MaxXYZ software and I am a fan. It is pretty intuitive which I like.

ETC stuff is always a pretty safe bet but I don't feel that it is necessarily the best choice for a board that might be used for anything approximating a rock show. I would take an Ion (or Eos if the budget is there) in a second for theatre work but if there is a chance that I might have to busk something than I would NOT want their stuff.

I will second the other comments about getting demos. You have a big enough budget that dealers should be giving you some serious time and you should take advantage of that to demo any board that is within your budget and is even remotely interesting.

 

[Syphilis]

I'm gonna go with the general feeling on this thread and recommend what I've worked with personally and enjoyed, which is the Ion. The standard for my school is an Express, which is an absolute nightmare to program MLs onto, and can take up pages and pages of submasters if you want to get close to usability for even Seachangers, but for larger productions we regularly rent higher board models, and the Ion has been by far my favorite. It handles any kind of intelligent fixture with ease, and I've yet to find a modern instrument it doesn't have a premade profile for. My only caveat (and perhaps this is because my mind was damaged when I learned the Express) is that it's 'intuitive' methods of recording cues are rather confusing. I often find myself switching Tracking on and off mid dry tech, for example, and there's almost always some weird interpretation of my commands that I have to go back and fix. This has gotten easier as I've become more comfortable with the system, but the "do it for you" attitude of the software still sometimes trips me up. Besides that, a great console.

 

[kendal69]

Seriously is there a better place on the planet where you can ask a question and get a boat load of great people to MORE THAN answer your question? NO!.

I'm in Southern Ca. So it looks like I need to Demo the Chamsys and ION - and if I can find a dealer that has an M1 do that one also. GrandMA has a site MA-share.net and I'm reading a lot of issues. I don't have time or energy for issues, so I'll let them go.

Yes the other part is support so I need to give thought to that also and I think ETC is the tops in that department as you guys have said.

With all this new LED stuff hitting the market I'm looking at a board that can handle all the new stuff.

Question with the ION, Chansys, - can you write your own light profiles or does ETC have to write them?

Thanks again for all the input it was perfect, Nothing better than hearing from people using the boards rather than the sales guys that say their board is the best on the planet.

This is funny - Note this is in the UK, see if it looks familiar. VERY FUNNY

http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=26547

 

[metti]

I don't know whether the Ion lets you write your own profiles but the Chamsys definitely does. It is also worth noting that with either company, you can ask for them to write you one and they'll turn it around ridiculously fast (sometimes in hours). If you shoot me an email ([email protected]) I can hook you up with someone at PRG Distribution who can arrange a Chamsys demo for you.

 

[Parker]

It really depends on how many MLs you're going to have. If it's going to be mostly conventionals and scrollers with maybe one or two MLs, then I'd say that the Element is the best way to go. I just got one last week at school (upgrade from an Innovator) and it's great so far.

Really... we just upgraded our system from an Innovator 600 to an Element as well... it has been a blast!

 

[JCarroll]

The Element I use lets you create new profiles so ION should too