Am I coiling cable right?

[JD]

The only problem I see with the videos is that it assumes the cable is straight to begin with. An old, wrongly twisted cable will "over-under" but will look like hell. As a cable ages and is abused, it develops a "kink" memory, usually from the internal conductors twisting out of sync with the outer coating. The only cure for this is to stretch out the cable and remove all rotation (I usually use the print on the outside jacket to confirm this.) Once straight and tight, I roll it onto a wooden cable reel under a bit of tension, much like the it comes from the factory. Let it sit for a week and when you remove it you will find it is more like its original self. It is important to be mindful of the connectors on the end and NOT use them to pull the cable tight.

 

[TimMc]

I'm sure its my technique, but I hate over under because when I uncoil it, I always do it wrong and get the chain of overhand knots. So I over/over

I get that excuse from a local IATSE stage hand as to why she wouldn't/couldn't do it. I had her replaced on the call... and I'm an IATSE member...

If a hand can't roll cables in the manner directed, they are not useful help and shouldn't be on the call.

 

[TimMc]

I call the over-over method a "spiral". Set the coil on the ground, take the free end and start walking. Does the cable look like screw threads? That's spiral... The alternating turns in the over-under means the cable will lay flat and without kinks. A spiral-wrapped cable will not, especially if it's socapex, triax, or many multiconductor loudspeaker cables.

In our shop we have cables that are 30 years old that are kink-free and will lay flat on the stage; we have 1 year old cables that went out with a moving light rental to a ballet company; those cables were wound over-arm by dancers - they developed kinks and twists of the conductors and fillers under the outer cable jacket and no about of tension, sun exposure or re-rolling will fix this. We keep those cables for dance companies...

The sucky part of this is that those cables were brand new and were screwed up the very first time they went out...

We now send them only out to ballet companies... it's expensive and inconvenient in the short term but keeps them from messing up yet more of our inventory.

 

[JD]

Most don't understand that the cabling is one of the most expensive elements to a show. Consider what a loop of socapex costs, or the compiles cost of 70 high0grade microphone cables. This is why those who own the equipment go ballistic when a show comes back as a tangled web of cables. Prorating it out, the cost of one bad stage hand can be enormous in both the labor to straiten things out and the damage done to the cables. Also, a damaged cable is like a time bomb, which will usually go off right in the middle of a show.

 

[RonHebbard]

I call the over-over method a "spiral". Set the coil on the ground, take the free end and start walking. Does the cable look like screw threads? That's spiral... The alternating turns in the over-under means the cable will lay flat and without kinks. A spiral-wrapped cable will not, especially if it's socapex, triax, or many multiconductor loudspeaker cables.

In our shop we have cables that are 30 years old that are kink-free and will lay flat on the stage; we have 1 year old cables that went out with a moving light rental to a ballet company; those cables were wound over-arm by dancers - they developed kinks and twists of the conductors and fillers under the outer cable jacket and no about of tension, sun exposure or re-rolling will fix this. We keep those cables for dance companies...

The sucky part of this is that those cables were brand new and were screwed up the very first time they went out...

We now send them only out to ballet companies... it's expensive and inconvenient in the short term but keeps them from messing up yet more of our inventory.

@TimMc Optimistically, a dancer will trip on them, not enough to get injured, but enough to annoy said dancer. We can always hope for Karma can't we? Especially if our dues are paid up?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard, retired from IA 129 and 357 plus IBEW 105.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I'm glad I found a job that doesn't require me to coil cables. Problem solved.

 

[JohnD]

Does anyone still use the figure8 (possibly known as figure of 8 for some people) method for thicker cables? I have seen it used for snake cables and feeder cables going into rectangular trunks. Then there is that awful method I call the "chain of loops", usually used for cheap, orange extension cords (usually cord which is all goobered up with duck tape and duck tape residue, with possibly a dab of masking tape).

 

[RonHebbard]

Does anyone still use the figure 8 (possibly known as figure of 8 for some people) method for thicker cables? I have seen it used for snake cables and feeder cables going into rectangular trunks. Then there is that awful method I call the "chain of loops", usually used for cheap, orange extension cords (usually cord which is all goobered up with duck tape and duck tape residue, with possibly a dab of masking tape).

@JohnD Visiting video mobiles, if they didn't have powered reels built into them, often used your figure of eight method with three tie lines for lengthy runs of triax. Your "chain of loops" is also popular with fluorescent pink and fluorescent lime thin gauge extensions, more so if they're saturated with beer pre and post consumption and their ground pins are absent. I suspect there's a cross-border corollary there as well, possibly even extending south into Mexico.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[EdSavoie]

"Am I coiling cables correctly?"

*Readies pitchfork*

*Watches OP's video*

It's alright! He's not doing it around the elbow!

*Lowers pitchfork*



In all seriousness though, the consequences of a badly maintained cable can be catastrophic for a timeline.

A local wrestling show Tech'd by our college's program just happened a few weeks ago. We wasted hours and hours trying to figure out why a specific par can wasn't working. The can was disassembled to bits, dimmer firing cards swapped, switched dimmer outputs, repeatedly checked patching, so on and so forth.

We metered 120 Volts on all of the appropriate pins of the socapex, but after all this wasted time it turns out the problem was with a fault in how some of the soca pins were mating. Of course, my instructor identifying the problem was only the first part, as the 100+ foot cable bundle had to be lowered from multiple points in the air so a supplemental cable could be hung and wired in.

(Part of the difficulty was that this par can was part of a fixed-wiring '6 banger' unit, so the fixture's wiring is directly connected to the soca on one end of the pipe.)
(Also, not a coiling problem, but an abused and badly coiled cable can cause problems just like this.)

 

[jonares]

Correct for the most part. You need more practice, as it looks awkward as all heck.

A cursory search for "over under cable coil" returns many, mostly good videos. This is IMO the best of the five or so I watched.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Rather than all that weirdness with the hands, I just spin the cable in my fingers, like this

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

As far as kinks, start by laying the entire cable out in a straight line, removing superfluous twists as necessary.

EDIT: Viola, found it! This is probably the first video to appear on the Internet on this topic. Dating from 1997 or 98, perhaps a little earlier. The definitive.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

N.B.--Why aren't there any videos of pretty girls coiling cable? Rhetorical. Pretty girls (and sometimes fellas) don't have to coil cable; they get others to do it for them.

Ha! I edited that last video of Chris Babbee - back when video for the interwebs was a mixture of low bitrate and pixie dust!

 

[emathews]

Thanks for this enlightening discussion. We are a brand new space with brand new cables, with a rotating staff of MS and HS students. I think teaching them how to properly coil cable is going to be a life-long lesson (well, for me as the teacher). But this got me thinking about all those other details that are equally important. Thanks! Also, as a venue with brand new cables that have been coiled by students who don't know how to coil, I believe they do get trained VERY quickly. :/

 

[derekleffew]

Ha! I edited that last video of Chris Babbee - back when video for the interwebs was a mixture of low bitrate and pixie dust!

Very cool. Welcome to the Booth. Perhaps start a thread in the New Member Board introducing yourself. Did Chris (or you) work for Audio Services Corp. (which became Location Sound) in North Hollywood?

... I believe they do get trained VERY quickly.

The students or the cables?

I find coiling new cables is much more difficult than old ones. Even more frustrating is when cable is taken off the side of the spool rather than unrolled. I like to demonstrate with a roll of toilet paper.

 

[TheaterEd]

Thanks for this enlightening discussion. We are a brand new space with brand new cables, with a rotating staff of MS and HS students. I think teaching them how to properly coil cable is going to be a life-long lesson (well, for me as the teacher). But this got me thinking about all those other details that are equally important. Thanks! Also, as a venue with brand new cables that have been coiled by students who don't know how to coil, I believe they do get trained VERY quickly. :/

Remember though that most cable is pre-wound on a spool, so training it to like over under takes some time. I generally take the longer cables up to the catwalk and let one end hang off so that it can untwist itself as I"m wrapping it the first few times.

 

[emathews]

I like to demonstrate with a roll of toilet paper.

Brilliant! Is there a video for that?

most cable is pre-wound on a spool, so training it to like over under takes some time.

Of course it does. That's a trick I'm going to employ. Thanks!

 

[derekleffew]

...I generally take the longer cables up to the catwalk and let one end hang off so that it can untwist itself as I"m wrapping it the first few times.

Attach one end to a batten, fly it all the way out, then back in.

I think it was mentioned above that especially kinky cables can benefit from laying stretched out in the sun on a warm day.

 

[Aaron Becker]

Thanks for this enlightening discussion. We are a brand new space with brand new cables, with a rotating staff of MS and HS students. I think teaching them how to properly coil cable is going to be a life-long lesson (well, for me as the teacher). But this got me thinking about all those other details that are equally important. Thanks! Also, as a venue with brand new cables that have been coiled by students who don't know how to coil, I believe they do get trained VERY quickly. :/

Just no around the elbow coiling, and you'll probably survive!

 

[RonHebbard]

Very cool. Welcome to the Booth. Perhaps start a thread in the New Member Board introducing yourself. Did Chris (or you) work for Audio Services Corp. (which became Location Sound) in North Hollywood?
The students or the cables?

I find coiling new cables is much more difficult than old ones. Even more frustrating is when cable is taken off the side of the spool rather than unrolled. I like to demonstrate with a roll of toilet paper.

@derekleffew How unlike you to leave yourself so wide open. O.K. Derek, what do you like to demonstrate with a roll of toilet paper?
[My tongue is bleeding. (From biting it, my tongue that is.)]
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[TheaterEd]

@derekleffew How unlike you to leave yourself so wide open.

Really Ron, you go after him for the toilet paper line and are just going to let one line slide by...

especially kinky cables can benefit from laying stretched out in the sun on a warm day.

Can't we all Derek.... Can't we all.....

 

[Psyd Itious]

Did Chris (or you) work for Audio Services Corp. (which became Location Sound) in North Hollywood?

I'd like to publicly thank Jon for that editing job. It was a friend of mine that shot it on beta, (remember beta?), a member of the Stagecraft Mailing List that volunteered to convert the tape to digits (IIRC) and then Jon edited the instructive vireo from the bits.
And I did not work for Location Sound Corp. I was the CEO of Interplanetary Productions Incorporated, and in the late eighties I dissolved IPI and started Location Sound. I rented sound packages for three or four features *as Location Sound* from ASC before they changed their name in , I think, '89? I haveta tell ya, it was a pretty awkward conversation with Jose at the next NAB...

For those of you that are having trouble with knots, watch my video again. The method by which I terminate the loops, either with mating connector pairs or with similar connectors, keeps the ends from going through the loops. It makes sense; to tie a half-hitch, you make a loop and pass an end through it. If you make make a buncha loops and pass and end through, what would you expect would happen? ; >

For the 'it came off the reel over-over' crowd; it is more like that when over-undered than over-overed. Next time you are in the big box store, grab an end of any cable reel on the rack and start over-overing it and see how far you get before it becomes unwieldy. Or you are asked politely (or maybe not-so-politely) to leave.
If you escape being 86'ed, try over-under on the next reel, You'll empty the reel before you get twists. Over-over resembles setting that reel down and pulling the cable off the end, EVERY coil becomes a twist *and* wants to raise up off the ground.
For new cables that have been wound at the factory (or old cables that have been would by sparkies) I tend to toss those like a Frisbee, unrolling the cable as it flies. I get about fifty-fifty decent tosses and tangled messes.

Feel Free to ask here or to send questions about cable coiling to LocationSoundGM at gmail dot com.

Love you, Jon!

 

[GreyWyvern]

For the 'it came off the reel over-over' crowd; it is more like that when over-undered than over-overed. Next time you are in the big box store, grab an end of any cable reel on the rack and start over-overing it and see how far you get before it becomes unwieldy. Or you are asked politely (or maybe not-so-politely) to leave.
If you escape being 86'ed, try over-under on the next reel, You'll empty the reel before you get twists. Over-over resembles setting that reel down and pulling the cable off the end, EVERY coil becomes a twist *and* wants to raise up off the ground.

This is exactly right. Thanks Jon Chris! Oh, and welcome to the Booth!
And thanks Jon for editing that video!