Automation for a Roll-Up Drop

[Herr_Sprecker]

Greetings all. For a show we are currently doing the finishing touches on, there is an arched opening at the center of upstage. For the design, the intent is to fill this arched opening with an RP screen for projected imagery. At at least one or two times during the show, the screen will need to be removed for some entrances and exits.

The opening is 13'-0" wide, and the screen material will be at least 7' long to fill the opening. Most likely it will be longer so as to allow for it to be rolled up. The plan is to attach a weight pipe at the bottom of the fabric and build a slot into the upstage deck for it to fit into so that the screen will be smooth and flat and will allow us to project all the way to the bottom of the opening.

It is the roll-up process where I am severely lacking experience. In principle, using some kind of drum material (PVC or such) and attaching it to a pipe and winch/gear assembly seems fairly straightforward. With limited space for it to exist, having it manually operated by a stagehand is not the most ideal. We have several Creative Conners automation systems in our inventory, including a Revolver, a Pushstick, and a Spotline. It seems like with some fitting, some of these might be able to do what we're after, but again I am somewhat light in experience of these systems.

If anyone has any thoughts or observations, or might have another direction we could pursue, that would be most helpful. Thank you!

 

[soundman]

If you have room upstage I think it would be easier and cleaner to use a solid frame on a hinge and use the spotline to tip it up and out of the way.

I've done roll drops before and in my experience they tend to get very wrinkled. getting a 13' long pipe supported so it doesn't bend or bow in the middle will be a challenge. If you have an all access depot near you they might be able to rent you the drum or whole system. https://allaccessinc.com/equipment/rolldrops/

 

[dbaxter]

We did a large rollup screen using carpet tubes (free!) and a truck tarp motor ($$). For your size, a smaller motor would probably do.

 

[Herr_Sprecker]

If you have room upstage I think it would be easier and cleaner to use a solid frame on a hinge and use the spotline to tip it up and out of the way.

I've done roll drops before and in my experience they tend to get very wrinkled. getting a 13' long pipe supported so it doesn't bend or bow in the middle will be a challenge. If you have an all access depot near you they might be able to rent you the drum or whole system. https://allaccessinc.com/equipment/rolldrops/

I appreciate those suggestions. Unfortunately we only have about 8-10 inches worth of moveable space between the back of the wall and some of the theatre architecture. Moving it up and down on a frame has also been considered but unfortunately there's not enough clearance above to get it fully out of the way.

Any thoughts about being able to solid-core a drum to prevent it from bowing?

 

[gafftaper]

I have built Roll Drops/Olios out of carpet tube twice. To stiffen it and to lengthen it. You take two pieces of 1x4 and cut matching 3/4" slots in the middle of each board half way down. Slide them together and glue in place to make a single "+" shaped piece of wood. Router and sand the edges so it fits inside the carpet tube. Slide it in the tube. Screw through the tube into the wood to secure the 1x4 + into place. I made one 20' long and it did sag, but not much. You really only notice it briefly when you are in the process of raising and lowering. If you are trying to cover a 13' proscenium you'll need about a 16' tube (leave 6" overlap on the dead end and 2' - 2 1/2' of overlap on the end where the rope coils. This also allows you to put more than one tube together. It'll sag a bit but it'll be plenty strong. I wouldn't worry about the sag, just make sure you have enough room up top for the drop to fully roll up behind the proscenium.

You might be able to get some 10' or 20' 6" or 8" sonotube, I don't know how large it comes. Use plywood to create the spline and make your "+" reinforcement. A thicker tube would wind the rope up faster which would be great, but it would be REALLY heavy, which takes me back to the original discussion of motorizing it... which is not my area of expertise.

 

[egilson1]

A few tricks. If you do the roll drop and the drum is out of view form the audience you can add a mid span roller under the middle to prevent sag. This needs to be something that wont mark the surface, like a fuzzy paint roller.

You could then use the pushstick to spin the tube as needed.

 

[jonliles]

Could you just rent an automated projection screen? Push button screen comes in. Push button, screen comes out. I'm not sure I would reinvent the wheel on this one

 

[jonliles]

That is something like 90"X160" -ish with a diaganol viewing of ~190"ish. Rear projection material adds significant cost, but a Da-lite brand screen in that rough size is <$7000. Two minutes with google and I found this company.

I see this as a buy it once and reuse it over and over again type of purchase. The link is pre-filtered for your dimensions, rear projection, motorized. A non-motorized (i.e. stage hand pull down) is significantly cheaper at under $2K for your dimensions.

 

[kicknargel]

There are lots of threads on here about roll drops; do some searching. A big consideration is whether you do the tube at the bottom (oleo) or the top. The physics are better doing it on the bottom, as the drop itself helps support the tube and reduces (not eliminates) sag. This technology goes way back in theatre history; vaudeville at least. You could then use the Spotline to pull the ropes, I presume.

The gold standard for a tube is aluminum irrigation pipe (like for linear sprinklers on a farm). It comes up to 40' long and is quite rigid. But at this size, probably overkill.

 

[ACTSTech]

I appreciate those suggestions. Unfortunately we only have about 8-10 inches worth of moveable space between the back of the wall and some of the theatre architecture. Moving it up and down on a frame has also been considered but unfortunately there's not enough clearance above to get it fully out of the way.

Any thoughts about being able to solid-core a drum to prevent it from bowing?

We recently tried this with our scrim, which was highly discouraged. Our opening is a lot larger (28' Wide x 16' High) and we used 4" PVC tube that we stuffed with ply to make it more rigid. It worked, but because of the scrim material we always had a bow. We ended up using a winch to control the motion through a double purchase pulley system. It worked, but not as well as we'd hoped.

 

[Herr_Sprecker]

That is something like 90"X160" -ish with a diaganol viewing of ~190"ish. Rear projection material adds significant cost, but a Da-lite brand screen in that rough size is <$7000. Two minutes with google and I found this company.

I see this as a buy it once and reuse it over and over again type of purchase. The link is pre-filtered for your dimensions, rear projection, motorized. A non-motorized (i.e. stage hand pull down) is significantly cheaper at under $2K for your dimensions.

I appreciate the information greatly! Unfortunately this is way out of our budget, and this is a more situational need with projections, so the investment would not pay off in other productions. I heard back from the folks at Creative Conners, our Pushstick unit will drive the drum rotation with a few tweaks, so right now I'm puzzling out what the roll-up drum and mounting will be.

Thank you again!